i don't think you speak for all ukranians though

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-ru...

so you are saying that the so-called "separatists" form a different "side" from russia tho they both want the war to continue?

nothing "so-called" about them. by all definitions of the word, they are separatists, and ones who support russia's intervention. by their account, zelensky can end the war immediately by recognizing independence of donbas, or initiating a referendum

If the goal is to recognize Donbas then why the fuck were the tanks rolling towards Kyiv? Why was Odesa bombed? Why did the annexation involve two other regions?

Let alone that it is public knowledge that the "separatists" are and always have been under russian control. Little green men came from russia and made the war happen.

seperatists are eastern ukranians that dont want to be under central kiev government, run by ukranian nationalists with nazi sympathies. that they would rather see themselves as russian just goes to tell you how much of a failure the right wing policies of the ukranian government have been

Because the Ukraine signed the Minsk agreements in bad faith with no intention of implementing them.

"it is public knowledge"

I suggest you read Wikipedia about anti-Maidan unrest in the Eastern Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukr...

I suggest you read Budapest Memorandum [0]. After russia blatantly violated its commitments from there any pointing out to Minsk is just idiotic.

Any violation of Ukrainian internationally recognized borders has been highly illegal and no matter how much whitewashing you want to do you are shilling for genocide. Also you will remove any claim that it was putins war after Ukraine has won.

Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder of civilians now? Also you need to go that far back to find anything at all is quite telling.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

its not that simple. ukranian nationalists overthrew an elected, internationally recognised government and as a consequence eastern ukranians revolted. its not very clear that budapest memorandum was violated at that point. no ammount of russia bashing can clarify that

"After the annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Canada,[25] France, Germany, Italy, Japan,[26] the UK,[27] and US[28][29] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its Budapest Memorandum obligations to Ukraine and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Whats not clear about that?

for one, their authority and capacity to objectively judge. for two, their hypocricy

"Pointing out random events 9 years ago somehow justifies mass murder"

You are confused. You claimed that the sole reason of the war in 2014 was Russian meddling and I suggested you read how the events really unfolded. It's still not too late to do just that.

How cute that a russian justifying russian war of aggression and genocide is gaslighting others with statements like "You are confused".

but you are confused. ukranian nationalists broke international law first. not only that but one of the first things the nationalists did after illegaly overthrowing an elected government was tell russia they were not going to be paying any outstanding debts. their policies only brought about what the whole world knew was gonna happen. never mind the feigned shock in the media. even my grandmother on the other side of europe knew what was gonna happen. the us egged them on to piss russia off. the eu told them to stay put. the us told ukranian nationalists infamously to "fuck the eu". its all common knowledge

the people in the eu largely support ukraine because they dislike russia. but no one sees them as our freedom fighters. lol. everyone knows the us is behind it and when living standards accross europe deteriorate people will lose patience with both the ukraine and the us

You have drunk the Kremlin propaganda really hard to think like that.

You think in one thread that russia had the best revolution in the history and in an another you call Ukrainian revolution illegal.

Also even if you don’t like that another country shakes lose of autocrat cronies, how does any of that justify tanks and bombs and Bucha?

Your thinking is comparable to a common thug: you were speeding, therefore I can kill all your relatives, rape your wife and kids.

i think you are incapable of having a civilized conversation

read about the russian civil war for a historical lesson about what can happen when there is a revolution. not just the russian civil war, but the ukranian civil war that followed the bolshevik revolution, as well as the heroic ukranian figures like Nestor Makhno and other noble ukranians that faught for a free and independent ukraine. but for some reason the ukranian nationalists in charge today glorify the nazi Stepan Bandera and made themselves and ukraine a vassal of us imperial ambitions. this is not the ukraine i want to support

I don't see how giving a link to an article in the English language Wikipedia and suggesting you read it can be classified as gaslighting.

"russia can fuck off from Ukraine any time it wants and the war will be over immediately"

You mean leaving the people of the Crimea, DNR and LNR to the mercy of nationalistic Ukraine?

Saving the people of occupied territories from russian rape, murder, forceful deportation, looting of property, etc.

im sure ukranians are much better. just like serbs and croats, same sh* different flag

That's not how the life is in Crimea. Ukraine was 'saving' Crimeans by cutting water and electricity supply.

As for DNR and LNR, it's as meaningful as saying that Russia is saving people in Ukraine from being burned alive by Ukrainian nationalists [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...

You seem to conveniently omit the fact that the first victims in Odessa on 2 May were on the Maidan side, 2 activists, Andrei Biryukov and Igor Ivanov. And that victims of the burning themselves were armed with incendiary weapons: https://youtu.be/FWBGM9G4kF8

Classic victim blaming.