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Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by ben_w on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:44AM (#35422543)
Looking at OSM, the sea borders of Russia and Japan touch. That seems like a good reason for Japan to care about what Russia is doing to another country it shares a border with.
Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by gatlin on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:45AM (#35422574)
Is the unstated assumption here that Russia is mindlessly belligerent and going to attack any neighbor for any reason?
Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by adriancr on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:53AM (#35422672)
That seems to be its history, so yes. Although reason seems mostly to expand, you probably meant with any pretext.
Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by gatlin on Tuesday April 11, 2023 @06:57PM (#35532831)
We have experienced different realities. There is no point in trying to discuss this.
Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by blibble on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:07AM (#35422875)
what do you mean assumption?

they have attacked several neighbours for no reason and have stated they wish to "reclaim" others

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by selivanovp on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:39AM (#35423364)
That's simply not true. You should learn about conflicts not from CNN news.

1. Russia hasn't stated a wish to reclaim other countries, even former parts of USSR. 2. Both military conflicts with neighbors Russia participated in: Georgia and Ukraine had very serious reasons and it was not Russia, that initiated both.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by blibble on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:45AM (#35423469)
> You should learn about conflicts not from CNN news.

what would be better then?

RT I suppose?

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by ceejayoz on Monday April 03, 2023 @01:04PM (#35427413)
> Russia hasn't stated a wish to reclaim other countries, even former parts of USSR.

Actions count more than words.

20 Feb 2022: "Russian Ambassador to the United States Anatoly Antonov denied Sunday that the Kremlin is preparing for an invasion of neighboring Ukraine..." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-ambassador-anato...

21 Feb 2022: Invasion!

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by ben_w on Monday April 03, 2023 @08:56AM (#35422715)
Mindlessly belligerent, yes.

"Any reason" is a bit of a stretch — I doubt Putin has a dice with country names on it — but given how dumb it was to invade Ukraine, it's not unreasonable to assume he's dumb enough to try Japan.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by EGreg on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:09AM (#35422890)
It's sad that takes like this are completely unironically stated. The media in every country is extremely biased, and people tend to believe whatever their narrative is (backed by extremely selective clipping of news to support only their narrative). It's like Fox News vs MSNBC but taken to a much larger extreme.

Yes, to the extent that Russia, China and USA are all belligerent, Russia is belligerent. They are all imperialists who meddle in their neighbors affairs. The USA is unique in that, having totally eradicated / subjugated / driven into reservations all nations native to the continent, and having taken 1/3 of its entire land mass from Mexico in a war, and having declared the entire Western hemisphere to effectively be its protectorate, it has flown around the world bombing populations and destroying countries that present zero threat to it (e.g. Laos). It spends more than the next 10 countries combined on its military, participated in 80% of the wars and most regime changes in the last 80 years, and has 25x more military bases than the entire rest of the world combined. And the rest of the world outside the bubble agrees with this, with polls taken every year...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jun/15/usa.iran

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...

So yes, Russia and USA and China are bad to their neighbors, but one of these goes halfway around the world and attacks people that present zero actual threat to it, including as territories from which to launch missiles. And tries to go and flip all former allies of the other two imperialists against them, causing more proxy wars. That's a whole other level of belligerence.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by adriancr on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:22AM (#35423089)
It seems you can't really handle OP being right and have resorted to what-about-ism.

So it seems you have conceded the argument and agree that Russia is mindlessly belligerent and now are saying that's fine because you think x-y-z are also belligerent? (Wrong but eh, not the subject of discussion).

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by EGreg on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:40AM (#35423387)
If by "the OP being right" you mean that Russia is pretty much like every other "Great Power" then yeah. Not only can I handle that, but I'm saying the same thing.

But that's not what the OP seems to be saying. He seems to be saying that, history has shown Russia is uniquely a bloodthirsty country that wants to attack its neighbors for no reason, any chance it gets. In a "normal" analysis of countries since, say, 1980s, one would see that countries typically attack as a reaction to something. Even USA invading Iraq was officially in response to Saddam ousting inspectors and maintaining ambiguity about WMDs. And even the secret war of bombing in Laos, which was especially egregious (since Laos presented zero threat, and yet was bombed more than any country in history), was justified by the "domino theory" that we cannot allow communism to spread around the world, because one day it may "challenge our interests".

That's why USA and NATO want to flip Russia's neighbors against Russia, even if it means a CIA-sponsored insurgency war where a million people die. In this kind of geopolitical chess, it is far better that they fight Russia over there, than having to later fight them all over here, economically and militarily, as a geopolitical bloc. Pick them off, divide and conquer. Russia, like a cornered animal, will react, as would any country to whom it is done. That kind of stuff is understandable -- geopolitical chess, action, reaction.

But if one goes to say that Russia is somehow beyond reacting, actually goes out and invades countries to grab their territory for fun and profit, that's saying much more. And in that case, I would push back on that narrative. Even the USA isn't doing that, officially. They are always "reacting" to what they perceive are a threat to their interests and security. But in the USA case it's much harder to justify when a country they're invading is 3000 miles away. The point of my reply was to say that each country (Russia included) has media that radicalizes their population to think exactly this kind of "cartoon villain" thing about another country, and I wish we would all listen to each other's media and hold our politicians accountable to talk to each other more frequently, as Khrustchev and Kennedy did, so they can avoid nuclear war.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by ben_w on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:41AM (#35424408)
> If by "the OP being right" you mean that Russia is pretty much like every other "Great Power" then yeah. Not only can I handle that, but I'm saying the same thing.

So you agree makes Russia a potential threat that Japan needs to care about?

Because your response didn't read like that.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by EGreg on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:49AM (#35424565)
If Japan doesn’t join an alliance that threatens to eventually station nukes aimed at Russian cities, and doesn’t attack Russia directly, I doubt that Russia would do something to further encroach on Japan. Why would they? The onus is on you to explain. The original comment seemed to say, well, Russia is just uniquely bloodthirsty, maybe has too many weapons lying around etc. I need something more rooted in realistic analysis.

But then again, I can’t say the same for, say, China building artificial islands or USA invading Haiti to restore order. Maybe I am wrong and Russia has a reason to gradually encroach and attack, so I am willing to hear it.

I am certainly suspecting that Russia’s spy agencies are helping foment a revolution against the governments in Moldova and Slovakia, which may in the future lead to a civil war there!

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by adriancr on Monday April 03, 2023 @11:16AM (#35425092)
If at first you don't succeed...

You now feign agreement with the first point only to say it's because of what-about-USA... and then disagree again.

All the while you're polluting the whole argument with needless arguments in the hope that something sticks or at least draws discussion somewhere else.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by EGreg on Monday April 03, 2023 @12:30PM (#35426746)
Um, no. I am trying to disentangle your amazingly bad misstatement of what I said — if indeed it was in good faith. The sibling comment to mine also pointed out its flaws
Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by hotpathdev on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:50AM (#35423532)
Excellent use of ad-hominem, incorrect use of whataboutism and to top it off, a classic strawman.
Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by bigbillheck on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:49AM (#35423516)
> it's not unreasonable to assume he's dumb enough to try Japan.

One thing Japan has that Ukraine does not is a whole bunch of US military installations. (And a mutual defense treaty, but you know what they say about three useless forms of North American paper)

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by ben_w on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:30AM (#35424193)
> but you know what they say about three useless forms of North American paper

I don't, but I can guess where you're going from the context.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by bigbillheck on Monday April 03, 2023 @09:44AM (#35423454)
> Looking at OSM,

I would have thought this kind of knowledge was in the table stakes for anybody with any kind of interest in the matter.

Re:Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices... by ben_w on Monday April 03, 2023 @10:44AM (#35424469)
As I live on the opposite side of the continent, I wanted to be sure they actually shared a border rather than just assume my memory was correct because they're nearby.