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Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by AdamJacobMuller on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:20PM (#35414748)
But what's the point of productivity if you aren't working on things which align with larger goals of the organization?

You can be the busiest person in the company, but, if your doing work which doesn't align with the goals of the company your contribution is either useless or in many cases is actively harmful.

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by YokoZar on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:47PM (#35415030)
Sounds like the company's problem. Maybe they should change their incentives so that managers actually want the right things.
Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by lolinder on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:41PM (#35415548)
Why are you so sure that legibility and alignment are the wrong things to look for in a large organization?

Most of the work in a large software project is coordination between all the minds involved. The more minds, the harder this task is. Large companies don't need people who can work super productively but might work on the wrong thing for weeks before surfacing again.

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by sigstoat on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:57PM (#35416196)
> Maybe they should change their incentives so that managers actually want the right things

what's the incentive structure for mid-level managers that maximizes productivity, but doesn't have the managers whipping the staff to work harder?

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by Cardinal7167 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:52PM (#35415072)
I think what OP means (and I would be inclined to agree) is that companies will take significant cuts to productivity in order to feel more secure and informed of the progress, even if that feeling is not grounded in data.
Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by serial_dev on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:34PM (#35415493)
The word you are looking for is micromanagement.
Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by brailsafe on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:52PM (#35416708)
I think that's the word that describes the whole thread and the topic.
Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by quickthrower2 on Monday April 03, 2023 @01:04AM (#35418762)
Running the organization with a profiler in production
Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by Kamq on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:14PM (#35415287)
> But what's the point of productivity if you aren't working on things which align with larger goals of the organization?

Assuming larger goals on the level of "profit", sure. There's no point.

But alignment that people harp on about tends to be on specific business initiatives, or possibly KPI targets (generally tied to executive bonuses). This sort of alignment is how you get an alignment trap (where teams that are more aligned actually cost the business more and deliver less value than teams that are less aligned).

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by bick_nyers on Sunday April 02, 2023 @05:55PM (#35415678)
Yes but there are diminishing returns to alignment. The difference between 90% and 99% alignment is minimal, and cutting productivity in half to achieve it is not worth it.

I also hypothesize that when you have systematically low productivity, the business/product no longer becomes aligned with the market. In that situation you actually don't want your employees to be 100% aligned with the business.

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by lifeisstillgood on Sunday April 02, 2023 @06:16PM (#35415863)
Goals at what level? I mean the goals for the CEO are so broad almost anything that is not going to land the board in court is a likely candidate. But for most middle management goals are highly restrictive.

I suspect that the guy who invented gmail (or rather linked ads to the text), had he asked his manager would have been told "hell no, fix the javascript bug that's assigned this week - that is putting us behind target for the month"

I generally think one should measure new or increased capability as opposed to most other metrics.

How is an interesting question

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by cratermoon on Sunday April 02, 2023 @11:38PM (#35418283)
> I suspect that the guy who invented gmail (or rather linked ads to the text), had he asked his manager would have been told "hell no, fix the javascript bug that's assigned this week - that is putting us behind target for the month"

The history of gmail is that it started as what Google called a 20% project. A side project the developer, Paul Buchheit, worked on with the knowledge of his managers and peers.

Re:Managers, Stop Distracting Your Employees by brailsafe on Sunday April 02, 2023 @07:51PM (#35416700)
Right, and to accomplish this, it's best to pop in at least twice a day to confirm that there are no updates and alignment is being achieved