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Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by evantbyrne on Saturday April 01, 2023 @07:53PM (#35405496)
By a trait being "beneficial" you mean that it prolongs the existence of some gene specifically, right? My understanding of evolution is that traits aren't necessarily beneficial to those who posses it in the colloquial sense. For example, animals that perish due to reproduction.

Also, isn't saying a trait exists so it must be beneficial a bit of an over simplification? Couldn't a relatively useless trait hypothetically exist due to genes that are also related to some other relatively useful trait? It seems like a stretch to say any lasting trait must be beneficial, unless you can isolate it from other traits on the genetic level or otherwise through analysis. Traits can also cease being beneficial as we can see from the countless species that have gone extinct.

Sorry if this seems like I'm ranting, but I just need more convincing that this rule of thumb makes sense, and would appreciate being pointed in the right direction if I'm off-base.

Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by Consultant32452 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @08:18PM (#35405664)
Yes, beneficial refers to those genes continuing on into the future.

The operative descriptive word describing those "useless traits" is cost. If nothing else, they have a cost of the energy and resources required to produce the relevant cells or whatever. Another organism that does not waste that energy and resources will out-compete the one building the useless trait. Natural selection will make it go away.

Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by Runeite51 on Saturday April 01, 2023 @09:26PM (#35406137)
Though that might just be the case for most things, I don't think it would be fair to say that for all things. Two traits could develop in conjunction with another, and trait 1 gives an advantage, while trait 2 is a disadvantage. The most in-your-face example I think is the stereotype of nerds and glasses. In short, a good enough trait could get you laid and fed even though you have a crappy trait that came with it.

edit: alternatively, a bad enough trait could completely derail the development of a good train. Maybe dolphins born with 200iq brains develop some other kind of bad trait as a result of the same mutation that doesn't allow for the 200iq trait to permeate.

Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by freeone3000 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @03:12AM (#35407988)
The characteristic one for this in humans is sickle cell anemia. It really sucks for the people who have it but it sucks less than malaria, so it’s persisted in the gene pool… in regions with endemic malaria.
Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by Consultant32452 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @01:38PM (#35413048)
The poor eyesight you're referring to comes with age, generally after the primary ages of procreation. Conditions which cause poor eyesight from birth get weeded out.
Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by tsimionescu on Sunday April 02, 2023 @04:59AM (#35408557)
That assumes that natural selection is a perfect process, and that we are at some "end" of it. In truth, the cost of generating useless noise could be small enough that it just doesn't matter and it hangs around. Maybe it will disappear in a few more billion years.

Any organism we see today may very well have unnecessary traits that evolution is in the process of removing.

Re:Sounds emitted by plants under stress are airborne and in... by Consultant32452 on Sunday April 02, 2023 @01:39PM (#35413059)
You put that assumption in, not me.