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Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by i80and on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:19AM (#35387529)
This is anecdotal, but most New Yorkers I know care, there's just not much they can do. The NYPD is effectively a military force and they have de facto veto power over the city government.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by atchoo on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:42AM (#35387875)
They voted for an NYPD Captain as mayor so it would seem if they do care, then it's supportive, desiring more NYPD power over government not less. Which seems insane to me...
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by jkaplowitz on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:51AM (#35388950)
Most New Yorkers didn’t vote for him in any real sense - he barely won a crowded Democratic primary in which the progressive vote split widely, and then in the general election the main vote was that he was better than the pretty far out there Republican candidate.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by tehwebguy on Saturday April 01, 2023 @06:05AM (#35398946)
This phenomenon is the real danger of single party capture in a district or state. Same thing happens in CA.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by chimeracoder on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:38PM (#35389615)
> They voted for an NYPD Captain as mayor so it would seem if they do care, then it's supportive, desiring more NYPD power over government not less. Which seems insane to me...

Eric Adams only barely squeaked through the primary, and even that was after literally four other forerunners either dropped out of the race or became embroiled in their own personal scandals.

As further evidence that the mayoral race was somewhat of a fluke, the same ballot also included many other citywide and local races, and more progressive candidates swept those races citywide, many of whom ran on platforms that explicitly promised to take on the NYPD.

Eric Adams didn't win because people wanted more NYPD power in city government; he won because he happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by valarauko on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:45PM (#35390514)
tbf to Adams, he did really well in the primary in some areas, driven at least partly by his hard on crime image. His success in Brooklyn could possibly be attributed to his connection to the borough, but the Bronx? Adams was the overwhelming choice in the Bronx, and from speaking to many Bronxites, they absolutely wanted to see more cops on the streets and cops on the subways.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by chimeracoder on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:06PM (#35390836)
> His success in Brooklyn could possibly be attributed to his connection to the borough, but the Bronx? Adams was the overwhelming choice in the Bronx,

Compared to who - Garcia? Sure, but that's not surprising. The point is that the top four frontrunners were already eliminated, figuratively or literally, by the time the primary happened.

> and from speaking to many Bronxites, they absolutely wanted to see more cops on the streets and cops on the subways

It's easy to find anecdotes, but the facts show how people voted, and with the exception of the mayoral race, they consistently and overwhelming voted for candidates who promised to reign in the NYPD.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by valarauko on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:42PM (#35391434)
> Compared to who - Garcia? Sure, but that's not surprising.

Nope, Adams's closest competitor in the Bronx was Wiley, but he still did about twice as well as she did in the first round. Adams was the first choice candidate for 45% of voters in the Bronx, the highest of any borough.

> It's easy to find anecdotes, but the facts show how people voted, and with the exception of the mayoral race, they consistently and overwhelming voted for candidates who promised to reign in the NYPD.

... which suggests to me that people are capable of voting for different candidates for different things, and that people have different expectations out of each. My district overwhelmingly sent AOC to Congress - and Adams to City Hall, beating out AOC endorsed Wiley 2:1.

> the facts show how people voted, and with the exception of the mayoral race, they consistently and overwhelming voted for candidates who promised to reign in the NYPD.

I don't see it quite the same way. People have different priorities and can pick and choose candidates accordingly. AOC's views on Congressional matters aligns with voters in my district, and they overwhelmingly supported her for Congress. Her views on the NYPD do not align with voters in my district, but they're not under her purview, so it doesn't matter. I can say that in my district when it comes to local matters, public safety is the number one priority, and that they look to the cops for support. At every public town hall meeting I've been to in my neighborhood, there have been demands for increased police presence, not less. I should also point out that a majority of the district is black/hispanic.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by woodruffw on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:41AM (#35387860)
This is correct, and to elaborate: the NYPD (1) is largely staffed by employees who live outside of the city, and (2) has an openly revanchist attitude towards the citizens they ostensibly protect and serve.

Under the current scheme, there is no incentive structure that "fixes" the NYPD; the NYPD is functioning as intended, and in broad conflict with the roles that constrain every other NYC civil servant (e.g., around living in the city).

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by bogomipz on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:22AM (#35388455)
"Revanchist"? What territory did they ever posses and lose? What would be the revanche?
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by woodruffw on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:36AM (#35388708)
Revanchism doesn't require physical territory, only a sense of loss and a corresponding drive for revenge.

The NYPD sees itself as an occupying force in a hostile city. What they've lost (or believe they've lost) is the respect of the natives; rather than questioning why that is, they've decided that the appropriate course of action is to extract all the value they can from the city while diminishing the natives' qualities of life to the greatest extent possible. Revanchism is the appropriate descriptor.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by bogomipz on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:36PM (#35389574)
Even if taken as a general "sense of loss" what did they lose? They didn't lose anything. They weren't "defunded", there was no structural reform or consents decrees. In fact as of last week they were on track to collect 100 million dollars in overtime for they year![1]][2]

Again what loss do they to avenge exactly?

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-20/nypd-blow...

[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-nyc-police-overtime-...

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by ambicapter on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:57PM (#35389901)
Quoting relevant part of comment you just replied to:

> What they've lost (or believe they've lost) is the respect of the natives;

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by bogomipz on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:05PM (#35394313)
I'm sorry but "the natives"? That's a hollow cliche. What does that mean? Just native New Yorkers? Because it's a city of transplants and immigrants. Tense relations between citizens and NYPD is not new. See Amodou Diallo, the 2004 Republican National Convention protests, "Stop and Frisk", Eric Garner, the list spans many decades. People also realize that realize that crime and public safety are a concern and that police have an important job. The tension between police and residents has been a near constant for decades. It ebbs and flows and there's fundamentally no more or and no less respect now.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by woodruffw on Friday March 31, 2023 @06:38PM (#35394708)
"Natives" was just a euphemism for residents.

I don't know why you're performing such a hostile reading: it can be simultaneously true that tension for police and residents has been present for decades, and that the police have shed a degree of respect and baseline approval that they've historically held[1], regardless of whether that approval was ever actually justified.

Which is what has happened[2].

[1]: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/205619.pdf

[2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/12/us/gallup-poll-police.htm...

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by bogomipz on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:42PM (#35395285)
There's nothing euphemistic about it at all. It bizarre to me that you seem to be going out of your way for specific word selection but then you go on to use those words incorrectly. It makes for confusing reading which is where my original question came. There's nothing "hostile" about asking for clarification.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by woodruffw on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:49PM (#35395364)
It's the second definition[1], and a common use in English.

The euphemism was more subtle, but is also a known one[2].

I'm sorry if you found either confusing; that wasn't my goal.

[1]: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/revanchist

[2]: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2612677

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by ghodith on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:22AM (#35388459)
Can NYPD police officers even reasonably afford living in NYC?
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by naremu on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:36AM (#35388706)
Indeed.com reports an average salary of 82k a year for NYPD officers, 49% above what it considers the average annual income in the US.

I recently looked into moving to NYC and was shocked to see prices similar to my middle of nowhere, significantly lower quality city. I could work in a pizzeria and live in NYC, this "it's too expensive" is really a suburban view of the sqft.

So why don't the civil servants making four times as much armed with lethal weapons live there?

Frankly, I'm amazed they consider it worth the commute to live outside the city.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by Avshalom on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:14PM (#35389297)
which doesn't include the overtime (which for nypd was 2.2 billion last year https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/overtime-overview/ )
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by wldcordeiro on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:38PM (#35389612)
It seems to be a policy thing across the nation to have police not live in the communities they police. Part of it I'm sure is some amount of fear of retribution but I think it's really to avoid the officers from developing empathy towards the community members. I recall years ago my roommate working at a fast food restaurant and he advanced to manager level and they immediately moved him from the store he worked at to another to make sure he was more detached with his underlings and it seems like a similar tactic.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by shadowgovt on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:39PM (#35391386)
It's more a reflection of the general trend for middle-class folks in the US to flee to the suburbs, plus the fact that a cop job generally makes one middle-class (in both directions: the weeding process of getting hired tends to exclude the lower classes, and the pay scale tends to make one able to afford a middle-class dwelling arrangement).
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by anticensor on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @03:10PM (#35444501)
Not only USA.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by Alupis on Friday March 31, 2023 @08:13PM (#35395542)
> I could work in a pizzeria and live in NYC, this "it's too expensive" is really a suburban view of the sqft.

Not everyone enjoys living in a shoe box or having a dozen roommates, for instance, and not everyone enjoys living in big cities either. Suburbs are amazing, despite what all the big city folks will tell you.

$82k a year in NYC is not amazing by any stretch. Could you realistically work in a pizzeria ($30k-$50k) and have a fulfilled life? Of course - but you will not be living well. There is a difference.

> 49% above what it considers the average annual income in the US.

You're comparing one of the highest cost of living areas with a national average. That's a very wrong comparison, and conclusion to make.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by woodruffw on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:39AM (#35388758)
Yes[1]. Millions of people survive in this city on salaries far below the average (and even starting) NYPD salaries, even before you factor in overtime.

[1]: https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/careers/police-officers/po-ben...

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by kevviiinn on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:26AM (#35388539)
Police officers are some of the most well paid workers in the country, they make insane amount off overtime on top of already comfortable salaries
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by smegger001 on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:50PM (#35392538)
and get a well funded pension with many cops retiring in their late 40s to early 50s.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by wahnfrieden on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:48AM (#35388903)
Many NYPD officers own super cars and have unusually high salaries. They leech money off the communities they lord over. They are an organized gang of criminals.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by pc86 on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:19PM (#35389359)
This is not unique to the NYPD. Without dox'ing myself I have first-hand experience working with a police officer who drove a GT-R worth more than they made in a year on paper. Maybe he had family money, maybe he had saved a bunch of money from earlier in his career getting overtime on the street. But it certainly wasn't a good look regardless.
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by throwaway743 on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:10PM (#35389247)
If you consider Staten as part of the city, then yeah :/
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by susanasj on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:24PM (#35389424)
yeah they get paid a decent middle class salary. Can they afford a nice apartment in the West Village? No. Can they afford a nice 3BR/2BA in a decent neighborhood in Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx/Staten Island if their partner is also a civil servant like a teacher? I think so yes.

(not that teachers shouldn't get paid more, they should)

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by bogomipz on Friday March 31, 2023 @11:27AM (#35388556)
"Revanchist"? What territory did they ever posses and lose? What exactly would be the revanche here?
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by 2-718-281-828 on Friday March 31, 2023 @12:32PM (#35389518)
> by employees who live outside of the city

I think that's addressed in Cop Land (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118887/). Excellent movie.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by taco_emoji on Friday March 31, 2023 @01:49PM (#35390577)
Yeah, I mean, who do you call to arrest the cops?
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by kulahan on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:32PM (#35391293)
Why would veto power matter in a scenario where they've gone rogue?
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by int_19h on Friday March 31, 2023 @03:41PM (#35392378)
Even NYPD cops themselves can't do much about it: Here's one guy who tried to blow a whistle on his PD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

The very people who were in charge of investigating police conduct reported him to his superiors. And then his own colleagues raided his house and forced him into involuntary confinement as an "emotionally disturbed person", handcuffs and all. The cops who delivered him to the psychiatric ward intentionally lied and misrepresented the whole thing to make sure that he remained confined and restrained.

Luckily, the guy had two recorders running during the raid, and the cops only found one, so there was ample evidence. I actually wonder if he'd still be in psych ward if not for that.

Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by bob_theslob646 on Friday March 31, 2023 @09:28PM (#35396073)
This was an amazing read. Thank you for sharing. Oh my gosh ,how did people not go to jail?
Re:NYPD is refusing to comply with NYC’s new surveillance te... by tehwebguy on Saturday April 01, 2023 @06:03AM (#35398931)
Who would put them in jail?