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Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:15PM (#35367454)
How does "we need to spend billions to get these people" translate into "people shouldn't be responsible for their choices?" Because if they aren't responsible for their choices, I am?

It isn't even less money, we passed that mark a long time ago. The average junkie in Seattle costs King County around $100k/year (w/o making any progress on their addiction), while we can put them in prison for around half that. This isn't about saving money anymore, its about throwing money into a bottomless pit and seeing nothing improving at all.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by zenta on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:27PM (#35367529)
Really curious where those numbers come from. Do you have a link you can share?
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:41PM (#35367637)
https://www.city-journal.org/seattle-homelessness

> At the same time, according to the Puget Sound Business Journal, the Seattle metro area spends more than $1 billion fighting homelessness every year. That’s nearly $100,000 for every homeless man, woman, and child in King County, yet the crisis seems only to have deepened, with more addiction, more crime, and more tent encampments in residential neighborhoods. By any measure, the city’s efforts are not working.

For incarceration costs:

https://www.doc.wa.gov/docs/publications/reports/200-AR001.p...

About $110/day (so $40,150/year)

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by heavyset_go on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:59PM (#35367759)
I'm familiar with stats like this for other cities, but in my experience, it's common for those statistics to be misinterpreted.

Often these funds go towards housing people so they are no longer homeless, so you might have X people who are currently homeless, but Y people relying on that $1B to remain housed.

Because of that, it's inaccurate to divide $1B by X and then claim that's how much going towards individuals who are still homeless anyway, when it is more accurate to divide that figure by X+Y.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by lazyasciiart on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:37AM (#35368885)
This stat isn't even being misinterpreted, it's being lied about. The $1billion is an imaginary number that includes theoretical lost tourism revenue, a pretense at annual spending of the capital costs for buildings used by welfare services, etc.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by com2kid on Thursday March 30, 2023 @01:44AM (#35368561)
What that, obscenely slanted, first link doesn't mention, is that each year around 10k homeless people in Seattle get off the streets.

It isn't like that money is being flushed down a hole, results are being had on an individual basis, but for reasons that are nationwide in scope, the overall problem (# of homeless people on the streets of Seattle) isn't getting any better.

National problems require national solutions, but half the senate is perfectly happy to offload the cost of social ills onto coastal metros.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by seanmcdirmid on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:37AM (#35368891)
The chronic homeless cases (the ones that can’t recover quickly) eat up around 80% of that money, so it still isn’t that far off. The low hanging fruit cases just need housing, and aren’t going to destroy or use it to make meth, they don’t require anywhere bear $100k/year in services.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by lynx23 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @01:58AM (#35368639)
How inefficient is this system, actually? I doubt one homeless man in seattle can cost 2 times as much as I earn per year. What are you spending all these dollars on? A free visit to a prostitute every week? Oh, I forgot, thats illegal in the US...
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by aziaziazi on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:00AM (#35368658)
Does every homeless in Seattle is a fentanyl addict ?
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by seanmcdirmid on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:39AM (#35368909)
No, only the ones that are acting nuts on the streets, the ones you are more likely notice more and the ones that aren’t helped without a lot of resources.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by lazyasciiart on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:38AM (#35368896)
Oh, look, you are getting your info exactly where I guessed. Not that impressive, it's always easier to identify the source of made up facts.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by smcl on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:03AM (#35370818)
Yikes, Chris Rufo...
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by sandworm101 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @08:26AM (#35371559)
>> Seattle metro area spends more than $1 billion fighting homelessness every year.

Think about how monumentally worse the problem might be if they didn't spend that money. There are very likely tens of thousands more people who would be homeless if not for government support/programs. Just imagine how many people would be on the streets in a week if EI and disability income streams were cut.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by lazyasciiart on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:41AM (#35368921)
They come from Christopher Rufo, a terrible person who is funded by creationist right wingers and these days is spending his time working with DeSantis to whip up fear of Critical Race Theory in schools.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by abxytg on Wednesday March 29, 2023 @11:35PM (#35367589)
Interesting and low price you are putting there on a humans life.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by sam0x17 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @01:11AM (#35368321)
Prison is actually extremely expensive and unsustainable
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by incone123 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:02AM (#35368671)
The person you replied to specifically said prison is half the cost of alternative services to drug addicts. Your refutation would be worth something if you had figures, as they have subsequently posted a link to back up their position.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by nvrspyx on Thursday March 30, 2023 @02:40AM (#35368916)
Except that posted link does not back up their position. The money went to housing for the homeless, not to any "alternative services to drug addicts". The author's entire point or claim in that article is Seattle is wasting money on affordable housing because the driver of homelessness isn't housing costs, but rather other factors like domestic violence, drug abuse, etc.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by ryan_lane on Thursday March 30, 2023 @04:44AM (#35369790)
A lot of those "junkies" started off as normal people with pain, who were targeted by perdue, until they became heavily addicted to opiods and eventually turned to heroin or fentanyl.

We, as a society, as responsible for this situation, because we allowed a company to turn hundreds of thousands of people into drug addicts, and let all of the company executives walk away without any repercussions.

We have two options, both of which are bottomless pits:

1. Do nothing, and pay the costs associated with drug addicts being left untreated (shelters, prisons, run down portions of cities, lowered property values) 2. Treat people

One of those options may cost a lot, but it also improves everyone's lives. I don't understand why this choice is so hard for some folks.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by taylorius on Thursday March 30, 2023 @05:13AM (#35370000)
Before even deciding between those choices, we should at least stop the problem continuing, by preventing so many prescriptions for opioids being given out to people in pain. The government should prosecute the likes of Purdue for their aggressive targeting of people in pain.

It won't happen though, because of regulatory capture, and general lobbying / corruption.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by ryan_lane on Thursday March 30, 2023 @07:52AM (#35371208)
If we don't choose option 2, we're choosing option 1.

We need to address the source and the problem at the same time. Regulatory capture doesn't really apply here, but lobbying (which is synonymous with corruption at this point) definitely does. Fixing the citizen's united issue would be a proper start at addressing the lobbying problem.

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by nradov on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:06AM (#35372055)
That problem is mostly already stopped. It is now much more difficult for doctors to prescribe opioid painkillers, to the extent that patients who legitimately have serious chronic pain are turning to buying illegal drugs because they can't get what they need through the healthcare system anymore.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by jtbayly on Thursday March 30, 2023 @09:46AM (#35372628)
People in serious pain want relief. They ask for relief.

If you were a doctor would your response to a patient in unbearable pain be, “Sorry, can’t help you”?

Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by lazyasciiart on Friday March 31, 2023 @02:12PM (#35390973)
Washington state successfully sued Purdue for millions of dollars over their contribution to opioid dependency. It hasn't made the tabloids because it's an example of government doing things right that doesn't sell well to people who want to complain about regulatory capture and corruption.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by throwayyy479087 on Thursday March 30, 2023 @04:12PM (#35378245)
There's also the Singapore approach, which is where we don't tolerate any of this insanity.
Re:The Horrifying Epidemic of Teen-Age Fentanyl Deaths in a ... by nibbleshifter on Thursday March 30, 2023 @05:48AM (#35370229)
It sounds like King County has an inefficient system. Bit of a rant here.

Tying success to "progress on their addiction" is also puritan brainworms, sorry.

A lot of US stuff seems to rely on punitive monitoring and "you relapsed, back to square one" nonsense, like a game of snakes and ladders. But with a body count.

Some people will never recover. Some will. Some will take fucking ages.

Being an addict and being a mostly functional, productive member of society are not mutually exclusive.

The actual ways to start fixing this problem are unfortunately, rather unpalatable to voters despite being cheaper in the long run.

Here's the thing. Heroin is dirt cheap to make at a controlled quality - its used in hospitals as diamorphine for end of life care, and some other uses.

State supply of heroin to heroin addicts is a policy that has been tested in the UK, Switzerland, Netherlands, and elsewhere at various points and it fucking works.

Decriminalization of possession with referral to addiction services is a policy that has worked phenomenally in Portugal.

Housing-first policies have worked out fantastically in Finland.

Putting supervised/safe injection rooms and needle exchanges in areas where addicts actually are (as opposed to where they are not) also works to reduce issues like people nodding off on the street, smoking up on buses, needles being discarded everywhere, etc.

Another point to note: the vast majority of addicts don't want to be addicts.

Those who do get off the drugs often relapse.

A vanishingly small minority don't want to get off the stuff.

Safe consumption spaces with state supply, clean needles/pipes/works, etc can effectively act as onboarding for users to engage with further services and progress along their journey to reintegration into society.

Get people into those spaces. Get them into supported housing.

Become their drug supplier, so they are no longer engaging in criminality or at risk of contaminated supply.

Don't make "being sober" a requirement for progression.

Aim to get them into "own door" independent housing with engagement with social services.

Help them find paid jobs and start supporting themselves, reintegrating into society.

Offer rehab/treatment, suboxone, etc.

Basically, TL;DR - offer them dignity and agency, and you will see far greater success.

End rant.