Prove your assertion. You are attributing logical, rational behavior to orgs and their participants that rarely are those traits. I have personally attempted to defend directs from layoffs, and that quickly turned into me making calls to other orgs so they could land safely elsewhere, facts and value be damned.

I support rational decisioning (“here is the evidence this person delivers value, is committed to the org’s success, and should be factored into retention”), it’s just rare imho. YMMV. Perhaps I’ve just been unlucky in my journey. If that is the case, n=1, build your assumptions off of competing data.

> Prove your assertion. You are attributing logical, rational behavior to orgs and their participants that rarely are those traits. I have personally attempted to defend directs from layoffs, and that quickly turned into me making calls to other orgs so they could land safely elsewhere, facts and value be damned.

And what am I supposed to do if my experience was the exact opposite to yours? Do you want me to dig up emails and/or other company documents that show there was "logical, rational behavior" in my organization?

Nah, I’m just saying that our experiences are going to wildly differ and my recommendation is to plan for the worst. Please don’t take my comments as anything other than that, and I absolutely did not intend it as a personal attack.

If you’ve worked at amazing orgs that value commitment and will take care of folks in return, I am genuinely happy for you. I’ve looked into the abyss, and that is where my advice comes from. I wish everyone a better experience than that, but if you rely on trust alone, you’re going to have a bad time.

Layoffs in large firms are typically handled in complete secrecy by third-party consultants, and 'loyalty' isn't an input they plug into their formulas.

The decisionmakers that, at the end of the day, approve the recommendations of the consultants are usually incredibly removed from any actual work that gets done. I'm talking about people with 300+ reports. They have no fucking idea whether or not you are 'loyal'.

The people who have an idea of that find out that you got laid off at the same time that you do.

Likewise, when an entire department gets gutted (with no internal transfers available), nobody with any influence over that decision is going to care that you were busting your ass for the firm's bottom line every Saturday.

> and 'loyalty' isn't an input they plug into their formulas.

>They have no fucking idea whether or not you are 'loyal'.

My comment literally says

>Loyalty isn't rewarded per se

What metrics do you think the "third-party consultants" are using?

> What metrics do you think the "third-party consultants" are using?

Closing their eyes, and throwing darts at the historical record of your three-point "NI/Meets/Exceeds" score, where you are on the org chart, and whether you're being paid more than your peers.

If there was any method to their madness, you wouldn't be seeing people with strong performance histories getting canned (In divisions that haven't been shut down).

I have never seen that happen.

I have seen people who were loyal and worked for the same company for 20 years be thrown to the curb like trash, and they were not poor performers.

You are just a number on a spreadsheet, and if you have been there awhile its an expensive number, you are probably older with a larger salary and higher healthcare costs.