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Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by eyelidlessness on Saturday March 25, 2023 @01:55AM (#35299897)
Just reading through, the distinction seems pretty obvious to me. It doesn’t reinforce several of my ideological perspectives, even contradicts some, but the distinction is plain as day. Physical things are subject to the laws of physics (can’t be in two places at once), idea “things” are much more ephemeral and thus much less restricted by those same rules (an idea can propagate basically infinitely and be “had” by basically all who wish to have it, barring arbitrary rules to the contrary). The former has concrete, immutable scarcity, and the latter only has scarcity people assign to it.
Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by bryanrasmussen on Saturday March 25, 2023 @05:07AM (#35300852)
As a general rule we don't enforce copyright at the point of having an idea, but rather at the point of putting that idea into some sort of medium that can be transmitted to others, and then we enforce copyright at the transmission point. The transmission has concrete, albeit somewhat mutable scarcity.
Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by philipps on Saturday March 25, 2023 @07:11AM (#35301494)
The characterization that IP law is only intended to spur creative activity is incorrect. It was designed to balance the interests of the creator with those of society. And that balance is off, IP regulation has become a tool for rent seeking.
Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by bryanrasmussen on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:24AM (#35302920)
>The characterization that IP law is only intended to spur creative activity is incorrect. It was designed to balance the interests of the creator with those of society.

I will just note that characterization is a very American one, and that different cultures have different characterizations.

Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by damoe on Saturday March 25, 2023 @12:42PM (#35304372)
You are actually incorrect here as far as the US goes.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the US constitution states:

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.

The whole constitutional purpose of IP law is to spur creative activity. The interests of the creator are only a means to this end. This has, unfortunately, been perverted by regulatory capture.

Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by cxr on Saturday March 25, 2023 @06:39AM (#35301326)
* * *
Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by agalunar on Saturday March 25, 2023 @07:48AM (#35301721)
Speaking as to my own opinion now:

I'm skeptical that "encouraging creators by offering protections" is much more than a rationalization. (And I'm not sure whether it's historically accurate, although that's beside the point.) It doesn't seem like the concept of intellectual property and its protection under the law have been effective at encouraging people to create things; they seem to be more effective at encouraging rent seeking. If we want to enable and encourage people to create things, we should pay them to create – not pay them to share something after they've already created it.

For example, we can pay someone to perform the labor to create something we want (contracts), we can finance their endeavours or subsidize their living expenses if we like their work (the patron model), and so on. In fact, we already do these things, but their effectiveness is limited because our current laws favor other business models.

And there's a wonderful reciprocity: if I pay someone to create something, not only do I get what I want, but everyone else gets to benefit from it too. And the things that other people pay to have created I also get to enjoy (and there are a lot more "other people" than there are "me").

[This is the visualization of a goal (or at least an alternative way of going about things) and an argument for its possibility. Unfortunately I can't claim to know its feasibility, how to get there from here, or even which tactics would be effective, but I hope to have good answers some day.]

Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by wwweston on Saturday March 25, 2023 @10:31AM (#35302996)
“Incentives don’t matter” is usually a bad take.

The idea that patronage isn’t dominant because… it can’t compete with copyright? is a not-even-wrong take.

And there’s an astounding burst of human creativity in the last 300 years. There are several factors you can attribute that to but the correlation with ip laws means you’re not going to have evidence that they inhibit rather than incentivize progress in the useful arts and sciences.

If there’s any empty rationalization in play, it’s yours.

Re:Judge Decides Against Internet Archive by agalunar on Saturday March 25, 2023 @02:22PM (#35305469)
> "Incentives don’t matter" is usually a bad take.

I didn't say that I thought incentives don't matter. (I was trying to say that I thought IP law isn't an especially good way to incentivize creativity, and that there might be better ways.) So I might be misunderstanding what you mean by this.

> The idea that patronage isn't dominant because... it can't compete with copyright? is a not-even-wrong take.

Could you explain why it's not-even-wrong? I can definitely accept that I'm wrong, but I don't see why it's so misguided that it can't even be discussed, affirmed, or denied.

Today, I can (usually) make more money as a software developer writing proprietary software than I can writing libre software. If software couldn't be copyrighted, it doesn't follow as a matter of course that demand for software would plummet. If the demand remains, in this alternate world I ought to still be able to make a living writing (libre) software.

In this alternate world, I would necessarily be paid for the labor I perform (writing code) rather than making money by selling licenses or copies. So, if the only difference between our world today and this alternate world is the existence of software copyright, and in our world today I'm incentivized to sell licenses or copies but in the alternate world I'd be paid for my labor per se, it seems fair to say that the reason I'm incentivized to sell licenses or copies – and the reason why e.g. patronage isn't more dominant – must be "because we recognize and protect copyright the way we do".

That was my line of reasoning.