a few things: 1) it can be used by defense attorneys if they want to discredit an officer during a trial 2) it can be used for victim’s or abuse to obtain context and realise they’re not alone 3) public naming and shaming disincentivises bad behaviour

Tell that to Rodney king

That had immediate feedback, but hasn't seemed to result in any systemic changes. Macklemore references this in his song A Wake.

I grew up during Reaganomics

When Ice T was out there on his killing cops shit

Or Rodney King was getting beat on

And they let off every single officer

And Los Angeles went and lost it

Now every month there's a new Rodney on YouTube

It's just something our generation is used to

I mean.. many states have implemented significant reform. Colorado has had a number of high visibility issues and has made meaningful changes due to the protests and media coverage. It’s just not true to say there hasn’t been systemic changes.

To me it's a sign of a failure of the system if people have to resort to this. With that said, this whole "copwatch" thing clearly has a huge element of being an intimidation tactic to scare police from doing their legitimate jobs.

It's mob behavior by proxy and I have absolutely no doubt that it's been used to aid actual criminals. Just watch some videos of the flash riots and road blockages. Or videos of the intimidation that police get by being recorded, taunted and down right verbally abused while trying to stop legitimate criminals. It's frankly disgusting, looks heavily inspired by blm-style black thug culture, and is a few steps away from pure anarchy.

Interesting that you consider the few avenues citizens have to hold police accountable as a path toward anarchy and “black thug culture”.

I’m curious if you have the same energy for the reasons police are being watched in the first place.

Of course, I'm an anarcho capitalist. I think the power that police are given and use is both scary and not healthy for society. They will abuse it, and they will escalate violence. But I also understand that at this point in time, society and culture is getting out of control and violence seems to be the only answer. I have no problem with them needing to use violence against criminals that are bullies towards the innocent.

If we don't like it, we need to change the laws.

And no I didn't say it was a path to it, I said it's causing us to move towards anarchy. Let's face it, a lot of current American black culture is openly sexist and racist and down right not healthy for a functioning society. A lot of people would agree with me except they're scared of the outrage and backlash and just plain scared of the angry thug violence most "black cultured" people will escalate such comments to.

You just don't see that as much if at all from white people's culture.

Not a comfortable topic, flamey for sure, but I feel it's important to raise awareness to the topic.

Do you think markets can exist without regulation?

> intimidation tactic to scare police from doing their legitimate jobs.

Do you seriously believe honest and law-abiding policemen could be scared and intimidated by being recognizable by ccitizens? I highly doubt that. Transparency is good, speaking against it is a good indicator that you might have a hidden agenda here. IOW, I personally dont trust people that utter sentences like this to be actually real, or nice to talk to.

I was more referring to the people recording police and the way they treat them while they're doing their job.

But this online database is just a lighter form of that. Accountability sure, all good, but this can quickly turn south and become a hit list for these individuals to be targeted in a multitude of ways. Let's be honest about that.

The problem here is that accountability is still a random accident. As long as policemen are typically not held accountable, citizens need to do tracking like this, and even more.

The day there is real accountability for every case, I am on your side again, granting policemen the privacy they deserve. But that is quite far off. And it is something police can control themselves.

Similar to how I see catholic priests and their tendency to fuck little children. The day the curch proovably demonstrates that they are hunting the bad apples for real, I will stop calling them all a bunch of rotten souls.

Just show you have your act together, and people will stop hating you, it is that simple. But whining about privacy while your gang is harassing citizens is just not on the menu.

The difference is that bodycam footage disappears or is never released - citizen journalist footage is on YoutTube the next day

I think that even if we were in a position where we are being subjected to oppression and there will never be any chance for justice, documenting that oppression and the people who are complicit in it is still very important.

It would help us make it clear to each other what can be expected. Keeps us a bit more honest about who and what we are. It gives us a place to start from if that "no chance for justice" situation ever changes, and could maybe even help others who haven't gotten to the point we have to avoid our fate. Wouldn't you think that even if it never protects any one of us today, history and the rest of the world should know about what was being done to us?

As for a website like this, maybe police will push back against it, exposing their hypocrisy in the process. Or maybe it'll cause a few people to think about why surveillance is acceptable when it's being done to them, but not acceptable when it's police officers. Or maybe somebody learns about all the bad apples and seeing example after example eventually feels outraged enough to push a little harder for meaningful changes.

I don't see the harm in it anyway.

The point is:

> documenting police abuses.

Whats not to understand? The police do not do a good job of policing themselves.

Citizens have a responsibility to ensure their police forces do not become tyrants.

>It’s pointless to do all this documenting without a way to turn it into accountability.

The light of public attention is the first step to accountability. Copwatchers gather the evidence that will eventually result in a conviction of those who abuse their position as police officers.

That is the point. How is this so hard to understand?

> there are never consequences

This is false. There are many, many cases of bad cops going to jail because a concerned citizen got them on camera, violating their position.

Unless you go looking for these cases, though, you won't see any. Policing in America has gotten too powerful. The only effective thing to do about it, is for citizens to turn their cameras on and start documenting the abuses, far and wide.