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Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Friday March 17, 2023 @09:05AM (#35196565)
The documentation for sin on a Mac says:

  sin(±infinity) returns a NaN and raises the "invalid"
  floating-point exception.
However, I can't figure out how to make that happen, and my clumsy attempts to figure out <fenv.h> and feraiseexcept() failed to make sin(INFINITY) do something other than return a NaN.
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jcranmer on Friday March 17, 2023 @09:33AM (#35196856)
Raising a floating-point exception generally means that the exception bit in the floating-point status register is set, and you can test this bit with fetestexcept.

Some architectures (but not all) do include some bits in the floating-point control register that will cause a hardware trap to be generated on an exception. There's no standard C function to do this, and even compiler builtin support is kind of sketchy, so your best bet is usually resorting to inline assembly to do this.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:09AM (#35197289)
Yes, I think I was using outdated/20-year-old experience about how on the DEC Alpha a domain error like this triggered a SIGFPE, and got confused between different ideas of what "exception" means.
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by im3w1l on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:29AM (#35198359)
I'd be concerned about whether the behavior of such a pattern is actually well defined. Like for instance what if the optimizer is super clever and evaluates your sin(infinity) at compile time? Or what if it undoes your bit-set? Or what if it moves the computation before the bit set?
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jcranmer on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:52AM (#35198710)
There are essentially three different flavors of floating-point models: strict, precise, and fast. Which one you get is dependent primarily on compiler flags, although most compilers will default to "precise" (a few default to "fast", but they really shouldn't).

The strict model requires that everything be evaluated at runtime and that the optimizer be aware of the potential for floating-point operations to have interactions with floating-point control and status words (i.e., rounding modes and fp exceptions)--essentially all optimizations are floating-point are forbidden.

The precise model allows compilers to ignore the dependency on rounding mode and fp exceptions, and treat floating-point optimizations as side-effect-free pure expressions, but still requires them to generally follow IEEE 754 arithmetic. As such, standard optimizations like code motion or constant propagation are legal, but arithmetic optimizations (like replacing x + 0.0 with x) are not generally legal.

The fast model allows compilers to also apply the arithmetic optimizations.

Most people who actually care about this level of detail are aware of the panoply of compiler options that are used to control floating-point optimization in the compiler.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by nextaccountic on Friday March 17, 2023 @01:52PM (#35200435)
How can replacing x + 0.0 with x not be legal??
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jcranmer on Friday March 17, 2023 @02:03PM (#35200595)
x + 0.0 is not the same as x when x is -0.0: -0.0 + 0.0 is +0.0, which is not the same as -0.0, though they do compare equal.
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Friday March 17, 2023 @03:31PM (#35201743)
I decided to test every non-NaN 32-bit float, and confirmed that's the only such case.

Edit: Hee-hee! And if I put my source into Godbolt's Compiler Explorer, compile with gcc 12.2 -O3 -ffast-math then my program turns into:

  main:
          xor     eax, eax
          ret
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jcranmer on Friday March 17, 2023 @04:03PM (#35202132)
The other case it doesn't work is that x + 0.0 is defined to quiet an sNaN (because almost every fp operation turns sNaN to qNaN)... except even generally strict floating-point models generally say "fuck you" to sNaN and treat sNaN and qNaN as interchangeable.

(Speaking of fast math, my planned blog post title if I ever write all this up into a blog post is "Floating Point, or How I Learned to Start Worrying and Hate Fast Math.")

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Friday March 17, 2023 @04:15PM (#35202295)
I deliberately added a !isnan() to my tests. There be dragons there. ;)

More precisely, my test compared the bit-patterns directly:

  i = 0 .. 2^32-1
  memcpy(&x, &i, 4);
  y = x + 0.0f;
  memcpy(&j, &y, 4)
  if (i != j) {printf("%f + 0.0 -> %f\n", x, y);
and I'm pretty sure that NaN addition, while resulting in a NaN, does not need to preserve the original bit pattern.

Regarding fast-not-so-math - Praise Kahan!

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jcranmer on Friday March 17, 2023 @07:31PM (#35204303)
> and I'm pretty sure that NaN addition, while resulting in a NaN, does not need to preserve the original bit pattern.

"it be complicated"

Except for certain operations (fneg, fcopysign, and fabs are all defined to only affect the sign bit, to the point that they're an exception to the sNaN-always-signals rule; and there are a few operations defined to operate on the NaN payload information), IEEE 754 generally says no more than a qNaN is generated. There's a recommendation that NaN payloads propagate, and most hardware does do that, but compilers actually typically don't even guarantee that sNaNs are not produced by operations.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Saturday March 18, 2023 @02:03AM (#35206559)
> There's a recommendation that NaN payloads propagate

I looked more closely, and yes, the signalling NaN + 0.0 always changed the bit pattern, and the quiet NaN + 0.0 always stayed the same.

Thank you for your informative details about IEEE 754.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jacobmartin on Friday March 17, 2023 @09:32AM (#35196836)
You should be able to see the floating point exception by testing fetestexcept(FE_INVALID) (if it returns nonzero/true then you have a domain error). errno is also set as a side effect.

(edit), for instance this gives me output of "1":

  #include <math.h>
  #include <fenv.h>
  #include <stdio.h>

  int main(void)
  {
    double a = sin(INFINITY);
  
    printf("%d\n", fetestexcept(FE_INVALID));
    return 0;
  }
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:06AM (#35197245)
"1" on my FreeBSD/Intel box. "0" on my Mac/M1 box with the vendor cc but "1" with gcc-12.

I think I have an outdated idea that there should be a way to have the exception trigger a SIGFPE, and that modern processors don't do that.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by light_hue_1 on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:40AM (#35197701)
You need to enable floating point trapping. It's trivial, but it's not on by default.

Although, in that case, this function would still be pure as far as Haskell is concerned. Because its output only depends on its input. Interrupts/exceptions are outside of the scope of the type system as far as an individual function goes.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jacobmartin on Friday March 17, 2023 @10:10AM (#35197300)
fascinating! Does vendor cc link to a different libc? I wonder if that is the problem and the docs are for glibc.

And testing just now, I can't even trigger SIGFPE with division by zero (integer or float). I guess all of these exceptions are "caught" now.

Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by eesmith on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:34AM (#35198418)
It took a while but I figured it out. Apple's cc compiles to:

  a.out: Mach-O 64-bit executable arm64
while my gcc-12 compiles to:

  a.out: Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64
which is then emulated via Rosetta.
Re:The friendship between Haskell and C by jcranmer on Friday March 17, 2023 @11:58AM (#35198792)
What compilers are you using, what flags are you using with those compilers?

If you care about it, you need to use the appropriate flags to get a strict floating-point model. If you merely have a precise or fast floating-point model, calling fetestexception is going to result in unspecified behavior.

[If you really want to be strict, the result of flags are unspecified if you don't use #pragma FENV_ACCESS ON, but gcc refuses to support FENV_ACCESS pragma, and you instead need to use command-line flags to get the same effect.]

> I think I have an outdated idea that there should be a way to have the exception trigger a SIGFPE, and that modern processors don't do that.

On Intel, you can clear the exception mask for the INVALID FP exception in mxcsr and get an SIGFPE whenever an operation raises INVALID [assuming, again, strict model to ensure the optimizer respects fp exceptions.] I don't know how, or if, AArch64 can enable hardware traps on floating-point exceptions.