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Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by paulmd on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:49PM (#35172081)
That may be true, but the EU can simply outlaw those types of contractual arrangements going forward, and require that prior purchases be either defaulted into the new purchase arrangement or refunded.

Welcome to governments that are actually responsive to protecting their citizens. It doesn't have to be the way it is in the US with corporations holding all the cards, that's just regulatory capture in action.

That's how the EU works in general, the balance is shifted way towards consumer protections - even if companies don't like it, tough. You get a default 2 year warranty on everything, no questions asked, and if the items fails past that due to an inherent defect in design or manufacture, they have to replace it even if it's outside the warranty window. And that's just normal, that's how everything is expected to run. USB cables, charges, all that crap, the EU does what it thinks is best for its citizens' lives, and while specific things sometimes do go wrong, on net it's a massive benefit to everyone's quality of life.

Companies exist to serve us, folks, not the other way around. It doesn't have to be this way. "Oh we put something in the terms of service"? Yeah bullshit. Mandatory binding arbitration in your contract of adhesion? Arbitrate on deez nuts.

The US is completely obscene by the standards of the rest of the developed world.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by vuln on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:53PM (#35172151)
It would be interesting to see the EU try and force a company to host something in perpetuity. Interesting thought exercise.
Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by yamtaddle on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:03PM (#35172293)
They could just actually sell things instead. As in, sell for real, not some at-our-discretion lease. Nobody's forcing companies to gate access and add DRM and all that. Such a change probably wouldn't result in perpetual hosting, but in actually selling things. Or, in only providing rentals. Either way, the situation would be clearer to the end user.
Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by robertlagrant on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @08:51PM (#35176777)
What are you talking about? Do you mean send out games on DVD?
Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @09:58PM (#35177234)
There are these thingswe wused to put on DVDs, we call them install files. You can find them on like every torrent tracker these days.
Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by yamtaddle on Thursday March 16, 2023 @10:26AM (#35182412)
In the case of games, anything that doesn't mean losing access to an account stops you from being able to play games you already bought. So, GOG wouldn't need to change much, but Steam might. Wouldn't have to mean shipping physical media.

Or they can just stop using terms like "buy" and otherwise implying ownership, instead making it clear you're just leasing the game.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by jerf on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:03PM (#35172303)
It doesn't have to be quite as simplistic. You can give them choices. There could be IP escrow companies you could pay. You can give them the choice of hosting in perpetuity or releasing something on some date. You can tie all these choices to a tax structure, progressive charges, etc. You could make the cheapest thing to simply sell the product outright. In theory you could even tie these additional protections to the a condition of making the release public at some point as a way of incentivizing companies not to use copyright protection on something that is not likely to be that valuable in 95 years, though that's unrealistically utopian of me to suggest.

My main point is that it doesn't have to be that simplistic.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by paulmd on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:04PM (#35172320)
Companies going out of business is a different thing but Amazon, Google, and Epic are not in any risk of going out of business.

If you're worried about shell-company games, well, that can be legislated against too. So far the EU hasn't, as far as I'm aware, let any companies out of any previously-mandated penalties for violating consumer protection with "That was google, this is ABC" bullshit.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by csunbird on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:04PM (#35172322)
EU isn’t that unfair for companies, it is more likely that they would allow revoking of access rights, but require companies to compensate for thr damages (e.g. issue a refund for the full or partial purchase amount)
Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by dkersten on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @07:52PM (#35176311)
I forced a book publisher to re-host videos on a particular CDN using the exact same URL’s because they advertised that the book came with videos, but the QR codes stopped working. Can’t imagine that was fun or cheap to fix.

I made a complaint to the advertising standards authority in the UK. They agreed with my complaint and forced the publisher to get the URL’s working again. I’m not sure how long they will keep working, but I imagine they have to at least for as long as the book is in print.

Not the EU, but I imagine the EU has a lot more clout than the ASA does.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @10:00PM (#35177248)
That's actually really good, I am sure I came across a similar problem but never thought of where to make a proper complaint
Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by dkersten on Friday March 17, 2023 @07:04AM (#35195439)
This experience taught me that sometimes making a complaint to the correct organisation is worth the minor effort. Most people (and me in the past too) would probably just be annoyed but ignore it.

It also emboldened me to make complaints about other things, for example I complained that a local internet provider was advertising having the fastest internet in my country, even though I had internet from another provider that was 3x the speed. They did eventually change their advertising and the funny thing is that I received update letters from my local advertising authority for about two years, addressed to sone bigwig executives at Sky (who had also complained) and… me, a random nobody.

I had zero skin in that one, but felt that advertisements should have to be accurate.

As for not knowing where to send the complaints, yeah, I get it, it was something I wondered about for a while too before I decided the advertising standards authority. My reasoning was: the book was still listed on their website and on Amazon, and the blurb clearly stated that it comes with videos, so it’s part of the purchasing decision. So since it was advertised that way, it’s clearly false advertising. I took a chance and it turned out correct.

Of course not all agencies are quite so receptive or active regarding complaints so it’s hit and miss, but since you can usually do it online in a few minutes I felt it was worth five minutes of my time to try anyway. If I’d had to send a physics letter, for example, I wouldn’t have done it. My experience dealing with the advertising standards authority from the UK, though, was a very good one. They were quick and communicative.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by mecha_ghidorah on Thursday March 16, 2023 @01:36AM (#35178501)
Bravo!

I've often been off put by books that advertise that they link to some sort of digital content because I can't trust that said content will be around when I want to actually access it. It never occurred to me they could be forced to host it, and I'm glad someone did that to at least one publisher once

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @10:02PM (#35177268)
Easy- revoke copyright protection.

Your "software X" is not worth hosting any more? Fine, then someone else can host it, maybe they will find it profitable.

Maybe even it could be a former employee.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by Dylan16807 on Thursday March 16, 2023 @02:33AM (#35178852)
Just keeping it online wouldn't be hard for most companies and most items sold.

If something is under pretty active use, that should have been in the original budget, but also you can put it on cloudflare R2.

For the long tail of perpetuity, you can pay Hetzner $1200 a year for a server with 45TB (plus parity) and a gigabit port.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by drstewart on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @01:58PM (#35172225)
>Welcome to governments that are actually responsive to protecting their citizens

Thank you, I appreciate your welcome. Can you point me to the EU law around this that you're welcoming me to?

Or did you literally just try to make up something that the EU can do then use it to praise the EU and bash the US?

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by paulmd on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:02PM (#35172277)
> Or did you literally just try to make up something that the EU can do then use it to praise the EU and bash the US?

The flamebait tone is unnecessary and is against the spirit of discussion here at HN as well as the rules, I'd kindly ask you to chill it a bit here.

This isn't legislation that exists, this is me suggesting they should pass legislation, which is obvious from the ordinary context of my comment.

Feels bad-faith but to give you the benefit of the doubt, if you are asking me to provide a track record of the EU's previous pro-consumer legislation, some examples would be phone connector/cable standardization, charger standardization, mandatory warranties, etc.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by lttlrck on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @02:50PM (#35172969)
> Welcome to governments that are actually responsive to protecting their citizens.

Same?

I don't disagree, but this is as much flamebait as the response you're complaining about...

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by chrononaut on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @05:28PM (#35174973)
> The flamebait tone is unnecessary and is against the spirit of discussion here at HN as well as the rules, I'd kindly ask you to chill it a bit here.

Not OP, but I imagine your tone was likely a contributing factor to their response.

>> Welcome to governments that are actually responsive to protecting their citizens.

..

>> Yeah bullshit. Mandatory binding arbitration in your contract of adhesion? Arbitrate on deez nuts.

>> The US is completely obscene by the standards of the rest of the developed world.

Re:Epic Games to Pay $245M for Tricking Users into Making Un... by jamesy0ung on Wednesday March 15, 2023 @04:26PM (#35174256)
Consumer protection is similar in Australia, we have the ACL and it's great. I got my 4 year old, out of warranty macbook pro replaced for free because the screen backlight was having problems and the keyboard was not working properly.