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Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by 0xB31B1B on Sunday March 12, 2023 @07:02PM (#35127683)
The decisions about "is this bank adequately capitalized to serve its depositors" should be made by the regulators, not by the market. We know what it takes to run a bank safely, and its really easy to both quantify and test. This is how the "too big to fail" banks are run today. No one talks about the moral hazard of elevators (make sure you inspect it before you get on) or airplanes (make sure you do your own pre flight check) we trust that the regulators have set up processes that make this infrastructure safe for the public to use. Even with a deposit guarantee, a poorly run bank can still be closed by regulators, a bank run doesn't need to happen for a bank to be shut down, just like an elevator accident doesn't need to happen to decertify an elevator in a building.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by DubiousPusher on Sunday March 12, 2023 @07:19PM (#35127974)
It doesn't take a CPA to know that depositing above 250k comes with increased risk. And I think you're kind of conflating types of consumers here. People depositing above that limit are generally not working from the same limitations and lack of information that regular people are.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by poof131 on Sunday March 12, 2023 @09:04PM (#35129168)
Exactly. Circle and USDC are essentially a bank themselves, and those deposits were just guaranteed. Risk free return.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by eric_cc on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:12PM (#35129925)
> People depositing above that limit are generally not working from the same limitations and lack of information that regular people are.

250k is not that much money. What a weird statement.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by TimTheTinker on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:20PM (#35130020)
Feels like a lot to me. That's more than a year's wages.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by enra on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:30PM (#35130128)
Companies need to run payroll twice a month. $250k is about one months payroll to 25 people. Many companies are a lot larger than that. You also have planned and unexpected expenses and other payments. Many payroll and providers also require you to set up one account where the funds are pulled. You don’t want to move money around every week, so you keep heathy balance.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by barsonme on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:50PM (#35130336)
I don't disagree, but fwiw it's only about one month's payroll for 25 people if each employee makes around $200k per year.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by enra on Sunday March 12, 2023 @11:05PM (#35130458)
Obviously people have different salaries but also are payroll taxes and other taxes or fees that also need to be paid like unemployment insurance and whatever else the local government has decided. Sometimes these are collected city/county as well as at state level.

Benefits also cost $500-2500/mo (if you cover 100% employee and 70% dependents).

Not complaining but just saying there are costs that are not always apparent to employees.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by 0xB31B1B on Monday March 13, 2023 @01:33AM (#35131514)
also rent, servers, the cost of anything else you have to run your businesses. For broadly generic tech companies, take everyones top line salaries, double them, that is your rule of thumb monthly expense line item that wraps everything up (rent, taxes, the cost of doing business, marketing spend, etc)
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by tolmasky on Sunday March 12, 2023 @11:23PM (#35130580)
It’s also never adjusted for inflation, despite this mess in theory being triggered by raising of interest rates due to super high inflation. 250K when it was set in 2010 is the equivalent of almost $350K now. If we ignore that, then we’re just admitting the number is totally arbitrary and we shouldn’t even bother arguing whether it’s a lot or a little.

Separately, it’s weird that a joint account is insured to 500K but a business account stays at 250K. It actually does weirdly favor wealthy individuals vs. working capital accounts for businesses that might represent many employees.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by baq on Monday March 13, 2023 @03:17AM (#35132233)
It was set to 250k from 100k… That’s quite far from ‘never adjusted’ and quite a bit more than ‘for inflation’.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by tolmasky on Monday March 13, 2023 @08:10AM (#35134577)
The sentence clearly means that it was never adjusted from inflation from when it was adjusted to 250K, 12 years ago. You can tell that this is far from being adjusted for inflation since it is now 100K off from what it was in 2010, or 40%. This should be a "neutral" issue with respect to the SVB thing, pegging it to inflation helps everyone in the system.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by DubiousPusher on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:30PM (#35130126)
Yes, that is a lot of cash for an individual. I don't really know why anyone would sit on a lot more cash than that without at least putting a healthy portion into Treasuries or other durable assets.

For businesses, it is a trickier proposition but there are reasons that companies roll cash into assets and operate largely from credit.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by 8note on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:35PM (#35130204)
That's more than most American will ever have in savings, no less
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by eric_cc on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:26PM (#35130086)
Consider financially responsible people in their 50’s and 60’s that have had decades to save. There are plenty of “regular”, middle class people with this type of savings in their account.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by DubiousPusher on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:31PM (#35130141)
If you have that much in liquid cash, you meet virtually no definition of the term "middle class". You are upper middle class at leadt and you probably have a financial advisor who is telling you that you shouldn't locate all your money in one account unless it is yielding in a way that justifies such a risk. At least I hope you do.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by solveit on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:35PM (#35130196)
Or you're just old and you don't believe in investing. Lots of people are like this.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by DubiousPusher on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:41PM (#35130263)
I concede that edge case.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by throwaway5959 on Sunday March 12, 2023 @11:08PM (#35130473)
That’s a senior software Eng in LA’s annual salary. With five years of experience.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by DubiousPusher on Monday March 13, 2023 @12:08AM (#35130921)
Yeah, that's actually about what I make but let's be real, this is a very small number of people. I have a financial planner.

Are there people in this asset class who aren't getting financial advice? Yes. But it's not like ma and pa kettle are getting wrung out by the savings and loan here.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by rolldat777 on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:33PM (#35130172)
It is more than the average lifetime peak retirement savings in the US (which will be in multiple accounts, generally).
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by chernevik on Sunday March 12, 2023 @07:34PM (#35128171)
And so the regulators are empowered to make a whole bunch of other decisions, such as asset and lending strategy.

I prefer to minimize regulators' control over decisions.

Perhaps you have noticed that regulators are at bottom politicians?

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by kazen44 on Sunday March 12, 2023 @08:00PM (#35128488)
at the end of the day, everything in life is political.

Did you also consider that the political incentive for a regulator are at odds with the ones running the bussiness. (mainly, not getting people killed).

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by TheOtherHobbes on Sunday March 12, 2023 @09:19PM (#35129338)
I prefer to minimise banking's influence over everything, because banking is itself a form of political regulation - but not a democratically accountable one.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by zupreme on Sunday March 12, 2023 @07:13PM (#35127884)
Consider: “Reserve requirements are a tool used by the central bank to increase or decrease the money supply in the economy and influence interest rates. Reserve requirements are currently set at ZERO as a response to the COVID-19 pandemic.” ref: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/requiredreserves.asp
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by tick_tock_tick on Sunday March 12, 2023 @08:51PM (#35129018)
A mean reserve requirements are stupid and have no place in real risk assessment so that's a good thing.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by 8note on Sunday March 12, 2023 @10:37PM (#35130220)
How so?
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by hellojesus on Monday March 13, 2023 @03:11PM (#35140890)
I don't think it necessarily is adjusted for risk that specific banks take on as operators. It's likely set at some requirement to help the fed achieve its goal while also adjusting for median or 2 std dev risk.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by lmm on Sunday March 12, 2023 @11:28PM (#35130619)
At this point we should just nationalize the whole banking system. Currently we have the worst of both worlds: privatised profits and socialised losses; strict regulations but limited oversight or appeal; no real market competition but no real voter influence either.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by 0xB31B1B on Monday March 13, 2023 @01:30AM (#35131493)
we don't have "socialized losses". Tax payers aren't paying for anything here. The FDIC is run an funded by an interbank consortium. Its essential a union of banks that run a collective risk pool and decide the rules of the risk pool. It works and has worked for nearly 100 years.
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by lmm on Monday March 13, 2023 @01:57AM (#35131688)
> we don't have "socialized losses". Tax payers aren't paying for anything here. The FDIC is run an funded by an interbank consortium. Its essential a union of banks that run a collective risk pool and decide the rules of the risk pool.

What meaningful distinction are you drawing here? It's not practical to opt out of banking, and FDIC has no real competition (the NCUA offers exactly the same terms, and in the credit union thread fans were at pains to emphasise how equivalent to the FDIC it is). Not all taxes are collected by governments from individuals.

Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by lostmsu on Monday March 13, 2023 @02:44AM (#35131979)
Cryptos?
Re:Joint Statement by the Department of the Treasury, Federa... by hellojesus on Monday March 13, 2023 @03:07PM (#35140821)
People will be taxed for this through inflation. Where else does the money come from during a QT cycle?

I haven't looked into the details for how this will be paid, but that would be my initial guess.