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Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by ndsipa_pomu on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:20AM (#35096425)
This is worrying as the BBC is supposed to be impartial and yet seems to be moving rightwards. There would seem to be a pattern of events: Richard Sharp made a loan to Boris Johnson and then was made the Chair of the BBC which has been described as "an error of judgement". More recently, there's been the criticism of Gary Lineker for calling out the Home Office's use of language (he compared it to Nazi Germany). There certainly seems to be a trend of the right-wing not allowing freedom of speech or criticism of their more toxic policies and lies.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by jjbinx007 on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:28AM (#35096567)
And don't forget the BBC's political editor exclaimed incredulously "that's quite a charge!" when a politician said that the former PM Boris Johnson has told lies in the past.

BBC often prides itself of having "both sides" of an argument in a debate (as if there are only 2 sides). Not all subjects need to a counter point of view. For example, if the BBC produce a document about black holes I don't to hear from a flat earther who denies gravity exists.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by BrianHenryIE on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:00PM (#35097154)
Dara Ó Briain has a great skit on that (about a minute in, again at 4:30):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKZN-hBTBUE

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by misssocrates on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:29AM (#35096599)
Can you think of any ways in which the BBC moved leftwards in recent years? And is it bad for them to adjust in either direction to orient toward neutrality?
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by ndsipa_pomu on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:46AM (#35096891)
Nothing springs to mind.

I don't want them to be adjusting their position one way or another politically - I want them to be reporting and investigating facts as far as possible without using loaded language.

However, I do have an axe to grind against the BBC as they are institutionally anti-cyclist and I've made many complaints to them over their cycling/active transport coverage. Usually they sit on the complaint for weeks/months and then adjust the original article which no-one will ever see as it's then too old.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by beardyw on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:00PM (#35097177)
Well if we take Gary Lineker's comments, would it have been right for the BBC to move closer to their philosophy?
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by dontlaugh on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:21AM (#35096452)
There’s been a clear right wing shift since around the Iraq war. It’s only gotten worse under the Tories, with party members in senior positions.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by gadders on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:31AM (#35096618)
The Iraq Was was started by a Labour government, and from what I remember the BBC seemed to be very against it.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by dontlaugh on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:59AM (#35097141)
Yes, that's why the BBC was then subjugated more directly to state control.

New Labour was a centre-right party, just like Labour today.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by gadders on Friday March 10, 2023 @01:10PM (#35098443)
Sadly so is the Tory party.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by dontlaugh on Friday March 10, 2023 @03:20PM (#35100354)
I’d say they’re still to the right of this New New Labour.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by gadders on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:29AM (#35096597)
BBC presenters are supposed to be politically neutral, so Lineker was right to be criticised (quite apart from the fact he was talking rubbish).

The ex-director general of the BBC Mark Thompson joined that hotbed of right wing activism, the New York Times. You also have ex-Labour minister James Purnell who had a senior role in the BBC.

Frankly if you think the BBC is anything other than the broadcast media wing of the Guardian you are severely deluded.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by KineticLensman on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:36AM (#35096714)
> Frankly if you think the BBC is anything other than the broadcast media wing of the Guardian you are severely deluded.

The extensive airtime given to Nigel Farage on BBC Question Time (> 30 appearances) contradicts this statement.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by Veen on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:55AM (#35097052)
Of the nine people who have appeared on Question Time most often, two might be considered right-wing: Farage and Ken Clarke. The remainder are Labour or Lib Dem MPs: Shirley Williams, Menzies Campbell, Harriet Harman, Charles Kennedy, Clare Short, Paddy Ashdown, and Roy Hattersley. Of these, Farage is the only Brexiteer; Clarke is a right-wing Remainer.

Just this year, it has featured the following left-wing politicians and journalists: Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Bridget Phillipson, Ash Sarkar (a libertarian communist), Wes Streeting, Tracy Brabin, Jenny Gilruth, Ian Murray, India Willoughby, Lisa Nandy, Stephen Kinnock, Thangam Debbonaire, and Sarah Jones.

I think perhaps your issue is with right-wing people getting any airtime at all.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:01PM (#35097186)
What's your view on this: https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/politics/an-open-letter-to-th...

particularly: "there is a clear and well-evidenced bias toward panellists from right-leaning media organisations"

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by lamp987 on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:01PM (#35097179)
The number is meaningless without comparison to others.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by gadders on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:51PM (#35098141)
They need someone to put the Brexit view and he has been the main face of Brexit for at least the last 20 years.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:05PM (#35097282)
> BBC is anything other than the broadcast media wing of the Guardian

Citation needed. Is the BBC run by ex-Guardian people?

No: "the controversial appointment of Rishi Sunak’s ex-boss and Conservative Party donor Richard Sharp to the influential role of BBC chair. ... There are also concerns about the appointment of BBC director general Tim Davie, who stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative Party in the 1990s."

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/politics/an-open-letter-to-th...

So, what part of your opinion is grounded in fact?

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by gadders on Friday March 10, 2023 @01:09PM (#35098424)
That's not a great article. He doesn't even realise that Rod Liddle is a Social Democrat and was previously in the Labour Party, and Piers Morgan was editor for the Daily Mirror and very much not of the right.

However, my point wasn't that there is a sharing of employees between the Guardian and the BBC, more that they both reflect the same bien pensant North London left wing orthodoxy - Brexit bad, immigration good, climate change an apocalypse etc etc.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by SideburnsOfDoom on Friday March 10, 2023 @01:21PM (#35098633)
And are you going to address who they do share employees with? It's a party that's not left-wing.

That's factual. The rest "not a great article", "North London left wing orthodoxy", and "BBC is insufficiently pro-Brexit" is vague, feelings not fact-based.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by gadders on Friday March 10, 2023 @06:23PM (#35102719)
The BBC also had Gavyn Davies as a chairman.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by SideburnsOfDoom on Saturday March 11, 2023 @04:48AM (#35106920)
"Gavyn Davies ... is a former Goldman Sachs partner who was the chairman of the BBC from 2001 until 2004"

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavyn_Davies

So this ended 19 years ago. I'm sorry, I don't see the relevance of this historical anecdote to what's currently true?

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by Veen on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:31AM (#35096630)
The Guardian article is misleading to the point of dishonesty. The episode that isn't being broadcast was not intended to be broadcast because it isn't part of the Wild Isles series. It's a companion documentary commissioned by the RSPB and the WWF.

And for all the good both these charities do, the BBC should not be broadcasting programs made by what are, in effect, political lobbying organizations (and I say that as someone who agrees with their aims).

Look at the last paragraph in the article, where they've put the real reason it isn't being broadcast.

Lineker compared the Home Secretary to the Nazis. He's entitled to his personal opinions, but he's a very prominent and massively over-paid BBC employee, so he should know better than to air his views on Twitter.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by beardyw on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:55AM (#35097047)
> The episode that isn't being broadcast was not intended to be broadcast because it isn't part of the Wild Isles series.

Apart from the statement by the BBC spokesman do you have any evidence of that?

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by jrex on Friday March 10, 2023 @12:18PM (#35097555)
The WWF have confirmed that it is a complementary documentary. (https://twitter.com/wwf_uk/status/1634230395037204482?s=61&t...). Google shows that Wild Isles has always been referred to as being in five parts.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by Steven420 on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:56AM (#35097089)
Thanks for pointing that out. The last paragraph offers some much needed context. This article is just anti right wing propaganda
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by marcusverus on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:48AM (#35096929)
The home office released this milquetoast video about stopping illegal immigration. Watch it. It's only a minute long.[0]

Gary Lineker, who presents on the BBC, responded with hysterical comment "This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the ’30s'".

Tim Davie, a director at the BBC, said "If you want to be an opinionated columnist or a partisan campaigner on social media then that is a valid choice, but you should not be working at the BBC."

If this is the BBC "moving right", it's hard to imagine that such a change is a bad thing.

[0] https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/1633022905628884992

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by ndsipa_pomu on Friday March 10, 2023 @11:59AM (#35097153)
Well, I certainly don't agree with Braverman's words there at all. If people are crossing the channel to apply for asylum, then I don't see how it can be determined that they are illegal. It's not possible to apply for asylum from outside of the UK, so they can only apply once they hit our shores and yet Braverman is branding them all as "illegal"? The immigration services have been completely stripped back by the Tories, so a lot of the statements are a result of their toxic-environment policy on immigration.

Honestly, the asylum issue is a right-wing dog whistle and it's not actually a big problem with the UK.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by marcusverus on Friday March 10, 2023 @02:01PM (#35099266)
It's all well and good to disagree with the policy, or the choice of the word "illegal". Had Gary Lineker done so, we wouldn't have heard a peep. But he called it Nazi rhetoric, which is hysterical, divisive and harmful to the public discourse.

> If people are crossing the channel to apply for asylum, then I don't see how it can be determined that they are illegal.

Intentionally circumventing legal entry points when entering a given country is generally illegal.

> It's not possible to apply for asylum from outside of the UK, so they can only apply once they hit our shores and yet Braverman is branding them all as "illegal"?

The UK doesn't grant asylum to people who travel to the UK through a 'safe third country'[0]. Why would sneaking across the channel be made any less illegal by making an invalid asylum claim?

> The immigration services have been completely stripped back by the Tories, so a lot of the statements are a result of their toxic-environment policy on immigration.

Tories were elected to implement immigration reform. What makes it toxic?

> Honestly, the asylum issue is a right-wing dog whistle and it's not actually a big problem with the UK.

The Tories are in power and this issue matters to their constituents. Waving it off as a "dog whistle" assumes bad faith which is, in my experience, a poor substitute for understanding the other side's arguments.

Also, "It's not that big of a problem" is an odd formulation. You acknowledge that there's a problem, but don't want it solved? Help me understand this mindset.

[0]https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/eligibility

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by madaxe_again on Saturday March 11, 2023 @05:29AM (#35107093)
You don’t seem to do anything here except for spout right wing rhetoric. Perhaps you’ll find yourself more at home on parler or on the stormfront forums than here.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by marcusverus on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:16AM (#35135276)
If you can't make a substantive contribution to the conversation, perhaps silence would suffice? This sort of surly mud-slinging is unbecoming.
Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by ndsipa_pomu on Saturday March 11, 2023 @06:36AM (#35107415)
He did not use the word 'Nazi' at all, he compared the language used to the language of 1930s Germany - a comparison which is justified.

The asylum "issue" is being exaggerated by right-wing media to distract from the many bigger problems that have either been caused by or exacerbated by the Tories mis-management of the UK.

Re:BBC will not broadcast Attenborough episode over fear of ... by marcusverus on Monday March 13, 2023 @09:12AM (#35135221)
> He did not use the word 'Nazi' at all, he compared the language used to the language of 1930s Germany

This is a distinction without a difference, as you well know.

> a comparison which is justified.

And yet you're unable to actually make such an argument. The argument, of course, isn't the point. The point is associating your political opponents with Nazis.

> The asylum "issue" is being exaggerated by right-wing media to distract from the many bigger problems that have either been caused by or exacerbated by the Tories mis-management of the UK.

The Tories were elected in large part to address immigration issues, remember? Who convinced you that enacting their platform is somehow nefarious?

> Personally, I think that refugees need to be shown some empathy and kindness.

The ones who are safe and sound in France or Germany, who're affected by this new law? Why do they need your empathy when they're in a safe third country? Is this refusal of empathy sufficient to brand someone a Nazi?