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Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by shaunsingh0207 on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @01:57PM (#34900788)
I hate how "normal" of a company google is becoming. Closing down services and products not because they aren't profitable, but because they aren't profitable enough. They've really lost their way the last few years.

In the late 2000's/early 2010's, google was pictured as the "fun" place to work. In part due to their coding competitions and the various other events they held for students throughout the year. Everyone I knew wanted to work for google. Now? everyone sees FAANG just the same as any other company.

Most of the people I know who wanted to work at google, and a few that worked at google, now have higher paying, more enjoyable, and more stable jobs elsewhere.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by shadowgovt on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:38PM (#34901432)
It's been a long time coming.

Google ran an experiment: "We are surrounded by stodgy, calcified software firms. Can we build a company that isn't like that and is also successful?"

For a long time, they succeeded. But I think that experiment has run to a conclusion and they've discovered for themselves why their competition became stodgy and calcified (it wasn't because that's what they wanted to be; it's because the larger you get, the more diverse work you're doing, the more you're rewarded for being reliable and efficient, not scrappy and disruptive).

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by htrp on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @03:18PM (#34902001)
>We are surrounded by stodgy, calcified software firms.

Cue Amazon's efforts to stay away from 'Day 2'...

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by evilduck on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @10:08PM (#34906229)
It's hard to be the scrappy and disruptive company when you've established the reputation that all of your new products efforts are a probably just months away from being showcased on https://killedbygoogle.com.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by lucidguppy on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @10:33PM (#34906409)
I wonder what would happen if they spun stuff off instead of killing stuff. Keep 20% ownership, it's an alternative to layoffs.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by ramblerman on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:57AM (#34907627)
> For a long time, they succeeded.

I'm not sure I'd give them that much credit in executing on any strategy.

Google sat on perhaps the biggest moat any recent company has known. They had cash to burn for decades and to their credit put a lot of that towards employee happiness.

But I'm not sure they ever really got anything off the ground for the "post" search era.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by neel8986 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @08:32AM (#34910331)
youtube, android, chrome, maps, google doc, drive to name a few.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by visarga on Thursday February 23, 2023 @02:01AM (#34907649)
The more profits a company makes, the more they stand to lose, so they avoid risks.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:33PM (#34901345)
> Most of the people I know who wanted to work at google, and a few that worked at google, now have higher paying, more enjoyable, and more stable jobs elsewhere

Honest question (this is really not a challenge), care to share where? I always thought of the FAANGs (collectively) giving the best compensation in the business. Which companies are paying more than Google but with more stability?

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by vineyardmike on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @04:43PM (#34903318)
This doesn't exactly answer your question but some FAANGS pay better than others, and its related to the "desirability" of the company. Eg. Amazon started beating out Google's pay, since people wanted to work at google, and had to be coheres to working at amazon.

I can't answer where pays better than FAANG, but companies in the bay (eg. Uber) are starting to approach the salary. Even smaller no-name bay companies are starting to match on base salary (equity+bonus is harder to match).

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by elijaht on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @05:14PM (#34903714)
> Even smaller no-name bay companies are starting to match on base salary (equity+bonus is harder to match).

FWIW- I see a lot of places with matching or better base than FANG, but it's precisely because the equity at FAANG is so high.

The only places I see with meaningfully higher pay than FAANG + hot tech companies of the day (ex. Doordash, Datadog, ...) are hedge funds. Curious if there is anywhere else

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by sbrother on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @05:50PM (#34904179)
One thing that complicates this is that Google (and probably the rest of FAANG but I don’t have experience there) is happy to severely downlevel people versus the positions they could get elsewhere. They also aggressively cut compensation if you live outside of SF/NYC. I’ve done a couple stints as an L4 SWE at Google and it is one of the worst paying places I’ve worked - but that’s because I’m comparing it to larger scope roles at smaller companies. Whereas yeah Staff or Director at Google is pretty hard to compete with.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by vineyardmike on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @11:30PM (#34906776)
> I’ve done a couple stints as an L4 SWE at Google

I’m curious. Does this mean you’ve left Google and returned multiple times at the same level while having better jobs elsewhere?

Not to be critical but why? (I ask because I’m considering returning to old places down/equileveled after being laid off somewhere and curious your reasons)

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by moira11 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:54AM (#34908378)
Internships? There are some people who spent every summer in college as Google interns
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by vineyardmike on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:04AM (#34911462)
L4 at Google is basically “mid level” aka you’ve proven yourself past a college hire but you’re not a senior engineer with lots of experience.

So doing a few jobs as an L4 is what’s unexpected because after experience at another role, and additional knowledge gained, etc ideally they’d be able to return as L5+.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by sbrother on Monday February 27, 2023 @01:32AM (#34953688)
Yep, that’s exactly what I did. I came back during COVID (after leaving to move away from an office five years prior) and chose to return at the level I left at rather than deal with leetcode interviews. It was a rough personal time for me (two kids under five during COVID daycare shutdowns) and I wanted the stability/benefits of the big G, and didn’t want to take the risk of an interview that I didn’t have time/energy to prepare for.

I feel a little bit bad because I very much used their benefits and then left again to go to a more appropriately leveled job. But going back to L4 at a megacorp was kind of mind numbing, and the compensation got so bad after the stock drop and location based pay cuts that I couldn’t justify staying any longer.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:36PM (#34904689)
OK, thanks, that pretty much is how I saw it. E.g. I definitely knew some FAANGs pay better than others (have heard from an Amazon recruiter straight up "We never lose people due to compensation"), but haven't heard of other companies paying more (unsurprisingly given the profit margins of the FAANGs).

Thus, I'm going to be a little skeptical when I hear about people taking higher paying jobs with more stability elsewhere.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by sgtnoodle on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @05:32PM (#34903939)
I've been really happy at Zipline. My salary is comparable to when I was at Google, and my equity has way more potential. As far as stability goes, I can't imagine a company being more supportive of its employees.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by some_random on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @05:43PM (#34904085)
It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that this triggers my fight or flight response https://getzipline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/rainbow-zo...
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by sgtnoodle on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @06:27PM (#34904593)
Lol, we're flyzipline.com
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by some_random on Thursday February 23, 2023 @09:51AM (#34911302)
Oh that's way cooler!
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by stbtrax on Thursday February 23, 2023 @01:20AM (#34907412)
There is absolutely no way your salary is comparable. Are you only counting base and not tcomp?

edit: Ah, he's counting start-up equity as not worthless. That's definitely one way to value it.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by sgtnoodle on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:25AM (#34908193)
I was talking about base salary. Zipline has been very proactive about making adjustments to stay fair and competitive, and I have only positive things to say. Regarding total compensation, yes Zipline equity is riskier than Google stock grants. I'm not going to share details, but so far it's trending favorably.

I've never worried about compensation details so much, and instead tried to find projects with interesting technical problems that bring intrinsic value to humanity, and a company of people worth spending my life with. My first job out of school, my salary was 40k below other offers I had. It just seemed like the best use of my time and energy. In time it brought me what I can only describe as an embarrassment of riches. My coworkers on the self driving car project at Google were perhaps the most brilliant people I've ever met. To paraphrase Zipline's CEO, they want employees doing the best work of their lives, and it's a marathon rather than a sprint. I have countless examples of the company, its employees, and its management going above and beyond. We're literally saving lives, too.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by stbtrax on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:18PM (#34920708)
Google's equity is cash. Ziplines is not real. I would much rather work at Zipline but given the delta in cost I would rather not forgo $1-200K a year to work there given bay area housing costs.
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by sgtnoodle on Friday February 24, 2023 @04:55PM (#34930675)
Each person has their own risk tolerance. Not taking on any risk at all is certainly safe, but also limiting. I've always taken a probabilistic "expected value" approach when weighing financial decisions, and so far it's worked out favorably. I don't think it's fair to conflate liquidity with reality. My equity in Zipline is real enough, at least to the Internal Revenue Service!
Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by shaunsingh0207 on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @08:44PM (#34905696)
A few yeas back several of them moved to netflix, and a few moved to airbnb and uber. I'm sure google still pays executives well above any other company, the people I knew at the time were fairly inexperienced and new to the field, and from what I heard google seemed to undervalue them relative to what other Bay Area companies were offering at the time.

Of course, this was a few years back, I'm not sure if the landscape has changed now for better or for worse.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by waboremo on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:13PM (#34901044)
Most of those aren't really the huge pulls. Sure Google was "fun" and offered good benefits, but it was also incredibly stable despite it's competitive edge and "fastmoving-ness".

After the massive layoffs that dwarfed any previous ones at Google (combined), that's no longer a pull to joining Google over other major techs.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by jsnell on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:07PM (#34900954)
> I hate how "normal" of a company google is becoming. Closing down services and products not because they aren't profitable, but because they aren't profitable enough.

What specific services and products are you thinking of there? How do you know they were profitable?

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by Beldin on Thursday February 23, 2023 @03:26PM (#34916004)
Just to be pedantic: not profitable enough doesn't necessarily imply profitable.

Consider, eg, shutting down their (Stadia's) game studio before the release of their first game. First release was scheduled a few months later, with no significant delays having occurred. Nevertheless, shutdown.

No one would expect it to have made a profit without a release. But apparently there was no way they could be profitable enough to warrant keeping.

Re:Google Stopping Coding Competitions by Eumenes on Wednesday February 22, 2023 @02:17PM (#34901093)
Worked at Google in the early 2010s and it was still a bit quirky/different, not enterprise at all ... but they were hiring armies of project managers, agile coaches, multiple layers of HR specialists ...