News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by zozbot234 on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @11:58AM (#34883450)
And this is exactly why "tripping" is heavily frowned upon by serious meditators and spiritual practitioners. Experiencing "ego death" (i.e. the three marks of existence) without having the previous spiritual grounding for it to help free you from attachment to the ego, is only a recipe for being even more deeply mired in craving and dukkha.
Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by jcbrand on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @12:10PM (#34883629)
> And this is exactly why "tripping" is heavily frowned upon by serious meditators and spiritual practitioners.

This is needlessly judgmental. I know life-long meditators, 30+ of years disciplined practice who sometimes take psychedelics.

I'm not a fan of various aspects of the psychedelic scene, e.g. the spiritual bypassing and the narcissism that can sometimes come from it, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Usage of psychedelics can be profoundly healing and helpful.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by zozbot234 on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @12:15PM (#34883698)
> I know life-long meditators, 30+ of years disciplined practice who sometimes take psychedelics.

I'm not dismissing spiritual practice, but psychedelics are entirely incidental to it and can be a snare for the unprepared mind. What's "profoundly healing and helpful" is always the spiritual part, not the means used to achieve it.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @02:32PM (#34885811)
And yet "spiritual" people are at least as prone to narcissism as everyone else. IMO one of the reasons spirituality of all kinds - including both traditional and non-traditional religion - has remained so consistently popular that it provides such excellent cover for more base actions and desires.

If you've found a drama-free spiritual community where everyone is deeply chilled and yet also adult and effective without losing a sense of humour, please let me know. That really hasn't been my experience.

In fact I think mindfulness, meditation, and so on confuse a kind of metaphysics of morality with what is probably some fairly basic brain mode switching.

Being "enlightened" for a brief period does not seem to create good people with any consistency or reliability. It doesn't even create consistently happier people. (Sometimes? Yes. More reliably and safely than other activities? Very likely not.)

It does seem to remove certain existential tangles, sometimes. But rather than being about "ego" - boo, hiss - perhaps those are more to do with easy/default vs less accessible modes of emotional cognition.

And actually - that's all.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by kodah on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @01:00PM (#34884404)
Those probably aren't meditators I would be listening to, it sounds as unhealthy as the person that attaches their identity to their ego return.

Psychedelics are a tool, and the different doses you figure out are ways of using that tool. Ego death requires a fairly heroic dose, something on the order of 3-5 grams of mushrooms for most strains. This, to me, is comparable to the isolation and introspection without breaks to incur ego death in meditation.

Ego death, from my perspective, is also a tool. Done with knowledge of what will happen during and after let's the user experience the absence of ego and helps them live with their ego when it returns. Done without the knowledge of what will happen after, humans often fully embrace that ego as a new life based on wisdom. A false wisdom.

My point here is the medium in which you choose is largely irrelevant. How you use the tools and the knowledge you go into them with are the paramount pieces. It's honestly surprising to me that anyone who meditates would have such judgy and pithy opinions, but it's a big world out there.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by zozbot234 on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @01:13PM (#34884577)
> Psychedelics are a tool

I don't think most users of psychedelics view them as a "tool" for serious spiritual practice. They just think tripping is a lot of fun.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by kodah on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @02:06PM (#34885417)
That's an incredibly cynical take and possibly bordering on gatekeeping based on "spiritual" boundaries.

Psychedelics can be fun, but in my experience they're fun if your mind is in the right place. They act as a conduit for more deeply connecting with the world around you.

On the other hand, if you have work to do then those things have a chance to appear in your trip. That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying. I've had both experiences through my own isolation and meditation before. As someone with years of trauma, including a year long stint in a war zone, I can attest that my trips were sometimes fun, almost always challenging, and sometimes terrifying. As time has gone on and I've done work to unpack my trips and connect them with my experiences and understanding when I'm sober my trips have averaged to being "more fun" and "connected". This is something I was not able to achieve with meditation alone.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by zozbot234 on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @02:49PM (#34886058)
> That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying.

Yes, and there's no guarantee that your bad trip or encounter with these entities will resolve itself without major effort. That ought to be enough to be seriously concerned about whether it is in any way appropriate to endorse this as some sort of ordinary, routine practice for the uninitiated.

Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by kodah on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @03:40PM (#34886844)
This can be easily said about spirituality as well. Anecdotally, I've met far more people with higher density narcissistic traits who cover their behavior with beliefs, enlightenment, and morality than I have of those with trippers. Unlike you, I don't think spirituality is a poison pill as a result. Instead I think of it as something that must be constantly measured, dosed, and negotiated with depending on the outcomes for a particular person. This is similar to how I think of psychedelics.
Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by bigbluedots on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @04:04PM (#34887298)
I'm finding it fascinating how much dogmatic religious junk is being thrown around in the comments here - discussing an article where one of the author's central points is that none of the dogmatic religious junk helped him.
Re:When Buddhism Goes Bad – How My Mindfulness Practice Led ... by zozbot234 on Tuesday February 21, 2023 @04:23PM (#34887576)
A tradition of meditation and spiritual practices with a history encompassing more than two thousand years is the polar opposite from "dogmatic religious junk"; it's filled with observations derived from experience. The Westernized use of psychedelics is barely a few decades old. I think it's reasonably clear what we should choose if we are to remain humble and avoid dogmaticism.