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Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by shapefrog on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:38AM (#34869764)
> “We were gobsmacked by what we found. It turns out there are fewer earlier retired today than at the start of the pandemic. You wouldn’t believe that from ministers’ speeches and talk of getting people back off the golf course,”

It turns out that government ministers dont have the faintest idea of what they are talking about, except what their base wants to think so they can virtue signalling the correct message - which seems somewhat dangerous when they are setting the policy.

If you want more "growth" getting the a young person into (meaningful) work would generate more short term growth and vastly more long term growth.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by sbuk on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:47AM (#34869860)
The only growth Tories want is in their own bank accounts. They certainly don’t care about young people. Then they don’t really care about old people either, it’s just that they are still gullible enough to believe what they and the Murdoch media tells them to.
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ta1243 on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:49AM (#34869891)
Old people read the Mail and Express, not Murdoch media.
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by Oxidation on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:04PM (#34870082)
Some old people definitely read the Times. Source: all the old people I'm related to who don't read the Telegraph which is even worse.
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by stuaxo on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:52AM (#34869927)
The messaging there is broadly the same.
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by shapefrog on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:57AM (#34869990)
Who reads the papers? Yes, Prime Minister - https://youtu.be/DGscoaUWW2M
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ta1243 on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:49AM (#34869883)
If you want growth stop draining nearly over half your take home pay in rent and council tax.

Relatively high income people can cope with increasing bills, rent, and food, but that means they aren't spending money at the pub or whatever, reducing economic activity. Those with lower incomes can't even afford food.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ctrwu2843 on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:12PM (#34870188)
isn't that what liz truss tried and got fired over? not convinced more neo-liberalism is the answer.

It's the economical equivalent of "beer got me into this mess, so it can damn well get me out of it"

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ben_w on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:26PM (#34870373)
Was it? I get she had (and still has) a total lack of awareness of… well, anything… but I thought the problem was that that (income) tax cuts she announced weren't connected properly to the expenses in the same budget and the international markets (and IMF!) said "you can't afford this level of borrowing".

Neither rent control, for all its long term issues, nor utility bill limits were something I remember being brought up.

Council tax in particular, I think isn't done by central government? Although it probably should be, given how messed up local council funding seems to be.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ta1243 on Monday February 20, 2023 @03:39PM (#34872610)
Council tax is done locally and basically has to be as high as it can be because the vast majority of it goes to things like care for wealthy pensioners (about half of council tax goes to adult social care). This used to be at least part-funded by central government (which raises its income mainly from taxing workers)

It's sort of based on house values, but that's values in 1990 so very little relevance to today, and its certainly not proportional -- someone in a £5m house pays just 3 times the amount someone in a £80k flat.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by michaelt on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:56PM (#34870694)
Liz Truss's vision of 'growth' meant cutting caps on bankers' bonuses, and an unfunded tax cut for people earning over £150,000.

That's not likely to get many extra people into the pub, because there aren't that many people earning >£150k.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ta1243 on Monday February 20, 2023 @03:40PM (#34872625)
Those that do earn over £150k a year don't have to worry aobut how much they spend eating sunday dinner at the local pub

Those earning 55k a year used to, now they can't afford it.

(Marginal tax at 55k for a parent with 2 kids and a student loan is 69%, for someone on 150k who's probably paid off their loan it's 47%)

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ta1243 on Monday February 20, 2023 @03:28PM (#34872494)
No. She didn't do anything to stop the draining of productive output by the land owning class, and neither the tories nor labour have ever tried to do this.
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by shapefrog on Monday February 20, 2023 @11:55AM (#34869968)
The problem in the UK is less that everything is expensive, but that nearly everyone is poor. Inequality really appears to be going rapidly the wrong way.
Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by ta1243 on Monday February 20, 2023 @05:31PM (#34873833)
The problem is the decimation of the middle earners, the ones that drive the service economy. More and more of their income (especially in London) is taken by rent and bills. Lower earners have had massive payrises - 24% in real terms since 2010. Median earners are up just 2.8% in real terms since 2010

From 2010 to 2023

Minimum wage has risen 76%

House prices have risen 76%

State Pension is up 52%

Median earnings is up 45%

CPIH inflation is up 41%

NHS Band 7 salaries (41-47k) are up 37%

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by rsynnott on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:05PM (#34870085)
> except what their base wants to think so they can virtue signalling the correct message

So, this is a bit of an odd case where they're kind of _blaming_ their base; it is hard to think of a demographic in England more likely to be a Tory voter than an early retired person.

Of course, they're doing this because telling early retired people to go back to work, while highly unlikely to be at all effective, is at least quite cheap, whereas dealing with chronic illness would involve fixing the NHS, which would be terrifyingly expensive.

Also, if you're the Tories, the very last thing you want to do is to draw people's attention to the state of the NHS. They've been in government for _13 years_; it's very much on them.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by shapefrog on Monday February 20, 2023 @12:10PM (#34870162)
In a speech to a room of over 50s the quantity of early retired person is near enough to 0.

Messaging that the kidz and the early retired (aka someone else) need to do their bit for the country will make the 99% of people in the audience that are employed and working hard feel like the true patriots trying to save the country from the forces of evil that they are.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by michaelt on Monday February 20, 2023 @01:07PM (#34870822)
> If you want more "growth" getting a young person into (meaningful) work would generate more short term growth and vastly more long term growth.

Doubling university places for medicine would be a very sensible move - but it'll take ~7 years before all the new medics are ready to practice. That's two elections in the future.

On the other hand, if you can tempt a retired doctor back into practice? They'll be treating people before the next election starts.

Of course, I doubt it'll work - wasn't the retired-doctors silver bullet already fired, during the pandemic?

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by pkaye on Monday February 20, 2023 @01:58PM (#34871454)
I've heard their pension system penalizes older doctors with more taxes once they accumulate enough years so its better to retire at that point.

The other thing is junior doctors can't progress forward in their training and career as there is limited training slots for specialization. So they end up logjammed being in the low rung doing scutwork at little pay.

Also doctors pay has not kept up with inflation for the last decade. Right now what they really want is full pay restoration but the government isn't budging.

There is a Reddit subreddit where UK jr doctors chat about this stuff and its very enlightening.

Re:UK ‘barking up wrong tree’ trying to get over-50s back to... by clocot on Wednesday March 01, 2023 @05:40AM (#34980832)
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