News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by transitivebs on Sunday February 19, 2023 @08:22AM (#34857357)
The cat & mouse game continues...
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by Mimmy on Sunday February 19, 2023 @08:58AM (#34857595)
I’m naive here but why would Chrome release a headless browser that makes it easier for bot developers to avoid detection?
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by dmix on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:08AM (#34857665)
This blog post is written that way because the guy works in the bot detection business so it's what he cares most about.

But there are still plenty of legitimate use cases for wanting a headless browser that perfectly replicates a normal browser environment. The obvious ones are automated frontend testing tools like https://playwright.dev/

Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by hoistbypetard on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:54AM (#34858056)
Exactly. And as the blog post mentioned, people who have a strong need to block bots have tools other than browser fingerprinting at their disposal. Quoth the post:

> It’s important to leverage other signals such as:

>

> * Behavior (client-side and server-side)

> * Different kinds of reputations (IP, sessions, user)

> * Proxy detection, in particular, residential proxy detection

> * Contextual information: time of the day, country, etc

> * TLS fingerprinting.

Having a headless browser that behaves exactly like a normal one is tremendously useful for making things. And people who really *need* to block bots also need to contend with "mechanical turk" style attackers anyway. These techniques are also very useful against that approach, which still may be cheaper than making an undetectable bot even with a near-perfect Chrome fingerprint available headless.

Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by mercurialuser on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:57AM (#34858085)
We use a headless browser to load an internal webpage (with content that may be updated several times per day) and generate a pdf on-demand.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by dataviz1000 on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:09AM (#34857681)
As a bot developer, without taking legal steps (I do not break the law) there is no stopping me regardless.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by ethbr0 on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:08AM (#34857663)
Because none of the people complaining about headless bots (read probably: content and retail) are major stakeholders from Chrome's viewpoint.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by TAKEMYMONEY on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:17AM (#34857735)
headless browsers or are faster than the normal browsers (no GUI) so your tests run faster
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by natorion on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:27AM (#34857811)
PM working on Headless here. Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created. The goal is to provide an headless browser that can be used in web tests. The original Headless is essentially a separate browser implemented in parallel to "proper" Chromium. That results in all sorts of subtle reproducibility problems for developers using Headless for their tests.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by ilyt on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:31AM (#34857845)
> PM working on Headless here. Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created.

Right. But it will be massively used just for that.

Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by literallyroy on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:04AM (#34858149)
Yes, same as many technologies with legitimate uses. Tor is largely used for illegal activities, yet many would say the anonymity it provides for the general public is worth it being created (or the anonymity it provided for US intelligence).
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by ilyt on Sunday February 19, 2023 @11:46AM (#34859174)
I'm not chasting anyone for building a piece of cool tech but that does seem like something like a holy grail for bots.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by richwater on Sunday February 19, 2023 @12:40PM (#34859825)
Nice to know you are the arbiter of what is and what isn't a "cool piece of tech"
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by ilyt on Sunday February 19, 2023 @03:18PM (#34861410)
I don't know whether you're illiterate or just maliciously misinterpreted what I wrote.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by danaris on Sunday February 19, 2023 @09:42AM (#34857943)
> Masking bots is not the reason why the new Headless mode was created.

You might consider looking into some resources on Intent vs Impact (eg, [0]).

IMNSHO, anyone working in tech has a responsibility to consider what their creations can be used for, in addition to what they intend them to be used for. There's just too much potential for scalability of nefarious behavior to do otherwise.

[0] https://www.masterclass.com/articles/intent-vs-impact

Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by tssva on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:24AM (#34858336)
Please reveal what you work on so I can publicly judge whether you have considered and properly chosen between intent vs impact or any other possible moral failings of your work as I see it.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by SeanAnderson on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:09AM (#34858186)
This is such good news to hear. Browser test automation was a pretty sore spot. I'm excited for your work.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by elbigbad on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:24AM (#34858340)
PM working on Private Browsing mode here. Watching pornography is not the reason why the new Private Browsing mode was created. The goal is to provide an Private Mode than can be used for Christmas shopping. ;)

In all seriousness, despite intentions, and I do love headless mode for actual integration tests with Webdriver, it’s no exaggeration to say that it is likely the single greatest avenue for bots and spam enablement across the entire internet, and imo is probably net Bad.

Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by dmix on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:58AM (#34858649)
A necessary evil for supporting an open and programmable internet (IMO).
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by ufmace on Sunday February 19, 2023 @10:59AM (#34858654)
It seems more neutral to me. Yes there's a lot of spam and other types of malicious behavior, but I don't think it's good overall to try to eliminate web automation entirely to stop it.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by zarzavat on Sunday February 19, 2023 @01:09PM (#34860159)
If it weren't for bots there would be no search engines, no internet archive, no WWW. Bots, and the tools for making them, are essential to the functioning of the web.
Re:New headless Chrome has been released and has a near-perf... by hashseed on Sunday February 19, 2023 @12:26PM (#34859677)
Chrome sets navigator.webdriver to true when controlled by automation.

Until now, bots could simply use headful mode to achieve the same effect that is now made available through the new headless implementation.