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Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by q7xvh97o2pDhNrh on Saturday February 18, 2023 @03:01AM (#34844968)
That could make a fascinating 2x2. I wonder what other failure modes the other intersections could reveal. Have you thought about those other 3 quadrants?

I did the exercise for myself, and here's what I got:

hands-on + task-oriented = micromanager

hands-on + people-oriented = professional office politician (deeply involved, but only to the extent it enables shaping the org chart)

hands-off + task-oriented = scrum master (no technical background that would allow being hands-on, but still very concerned with tasks)

hands-off + people-oriented = HR rep, I guess? Relatively distant from the day-to-day of the team, but still concerned with "people."

On reflection, maybe that last one is a bit of a stretch. But — definitely an interesting thought experiment overall.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by blowski on Saturday February 18, 2023 @03:06AM (#34844999)
Good managers can adapt the help they provide to the teams they manage.

A team of high-performing engineers needs something different from a manager than a team of low-performing juniors. A team building a new product in a fast-growing startup will have different needs to a maintenance team in a bluechip.

Nonetheless, I do like your thought experiment. It provides a model to think about what might be necessary.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by justinclift on Saturday February 18, 2023 @03:54AM (#34845244)
Ever read "The One Minute manager"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_Minute_Manager

It covers this, is very short, and (IMHO) is a good book to give all brand new managers. eg when they're promoted from individual contributors

Seems to set new managers on the right path. :)

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by KineticLensman on Saturday February 18, 2023 @06:17AM (#34845995)
> That could make a fascinating 2x2

2x2s can be really entertaining. One I've seen a lot covers the dimensions of lazy-hardworking and idiot-clever. The outcome is

* hardworking-clever: Ideal!

* lazy-idiot: don't need to worry, they'll not usually progress.

* lazy-clever: hmmm. not ideal but may still be useful from time to time.

* hardworking-idiot: bad! They can do a lot of damage

In truth there are usually more than two relevant dimensions.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by danson on Saturday February 18, 2023 @06:41AM (#34846108)
There is a well known (albeit mythic) portrayal of this that disagrees with you, putting the lazy-clevers in charge.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/28/clever-lazy/?amp=1

I think it requires a certain definition of "lazy" that basically translates to "delegate everything you possibly can" - which we all know can be hard work in itself.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by walthamstow on Saturday February 18, 2023 @07:07AM (#34846270)
Lazy clevers can be very useful in finding ineffeciencies and automating tasks

IME they are the first people to challenge assumptions about the way things are done, and the least happy with the answer "that's just the way we do it"

Just make sure you review their code.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by beefield on Saturday February 18, 2023 @08:02AM (#34846594)
I would argue any hard working is not clever by definition. But the ones who are otherwise clever but have a blind spot on the hard working part - they are scary. How efficiently and how far they can get into completely wrong and unexpected direction before stopping to think the overall picture can be mindboggling. The hardworking idiots are useful as long as their direction is contained.
Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by yarg on Saturday February 18, 2023 @10:54AM (#34847796)
Lazy and clever can be very useful; sit around thinking about the potential break-down of a problem into aspects that generalise broadly and those specific to the work being done.

Spend the time that needs to be spent implementing the generalisable aspects, so that the work never needs to be repeated.

Implement the problem specific aspects (with minimal code) against those changes (and if any similar problems come up in the future, the changes can be made in minimal time and with minimal work).

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by austinjp on Monday February 20, 2023 @02:42AM (#34865970)
Fun. Not to detract, and as others have said, there are other dimensions. Hardworking clever assholes can be bullies, for example.

I'd also say that very few people are inherently lazy, they're often just demotivated through misalignment of their responsibilities versus interests.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by Multicomp on Saturday February 18, 2023 @08:09AM (#34846657)
David Allen's Making It All Work book has a 2x2 that fits TFAs scenario.

Captain and Commander - appropriate control and perspective, seen as that flow state in FFA chart

Micromanager - has too much control, not enough perspective, work gets out of control because it's being squeezed too hard

Crazymaker - has not enough control, but has lots of perspective. Work doesn't happen because new ideas pop up like fungus covering everything and nobody can iterate on anything because of all the context shifting.

Victim - not enough control or perspective, just responds to crises. Sounds like TFA version of the disengaged manager to me.

The thing is that the control and perspective axes change on the subject matter, so a person can be a Victim in one space and a crazy maker in another and a captain and commander in a third, at least at this point in time.

Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by icedchai on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:32PM (#34851323)
Of these types, I find hands-off and task-oriented to be the most bothersome. I am definitely familiar with do nothing scrum masters, and "project managers" whose idea of management involves setting an arbitrary deadline, then wondering why it isn't met. The others I can work with.
Re:Better to micromanage than be disengaged by ec2y on Monday February 20, 2023 @01:49AM (#34865684)
I think you’d enjoy reading about regulatory focus from the HR research, which makes exactly these types of tables. Here’s a readable HBR article:

Halvorson, Heidi Grant & Higgins, E. Tory. 2013. Do you play to win - or to lose? Know what really motivates you. Harvard Business Review 117.