News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:We Found an Neuron in GPT-2 by FeepingCreature on Friday February 17, 2023 @04:29AM (#34832658)
I don't think it's like ... if an idea gets moved to the verbalization stage, that you're compelled to say it. It's more that some people seem to have little control over what happens at that stage, ie. they can operate on a concept but they can't predict the way it'll be spoken.

Like

[Conceptual stage] --??-- consciousness

V

[Verbalization stage] --??-- consciousness

V

[Vocalization]

So if you don't have conscious access to verbalization, you only realize how a thought "will sound" after you say it. Conversely, if you don't have conscious access to conceptualization, you end up thinking that "thinking" always involves "thinking out loud", because "thinking out loud" (verbalizing) is the only way you have to query your conceptual layer. You literally only become aware of your own thinking after the thought is already pretty far along. At the extreme, you can have conscious access to neither stage and require vocalization to reflect on your own thinking.

Re:We Found an Neuron in GPT-2 by vasco on Friday February 17, 2023 @08:09AM (#34834205)
I understood your original argument, maybe I just did a bad job describing what I disagree with. In this post it's this:

> Conversely, if you don't have conscious access to conceptualization, you end up thinking that "thinking" always involves "thinking out loud", because "thinking out loud" (verbalizing) is the only way you have to query your conceptual layer. You literally only become aware of your own thinking after the thought is already pretty far along

What I'm saying is that even if you do have conscious access to verbalisation stage, the more you force yourself to let it be handled subconsciously, the better at communicating quickly and effectively. This is what I meant by autopilot.

Spending active conversation time on conscious verbalization seems to me as inefficient as verbalising words and "speaking them out" as you read a book, usually known as subvocalization.

Re:We Found an Neuron in GPT-2 by FeepingCreature on Friday February 17, 2023 @11:36AM (#34836834)
Oh yeah I agree with that. I think the conscious access is primarily important for self-training. So I would expect somebody with conscious access to 1. be better at vocalizing, 2. almost never actually need to use their access to correct a decision.

I tend to think of consciousness as the "debug mode" of the brain.