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Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by GuB-42 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @05:32AM (#34802080)
That should be illegal, they should use the same rules as for food packaging.

For a 1kg bag of flour bought in the EU, that would be

- On average, you should get at least 1kg of flour

- No bag should be less than 985g

- Packaging does not count

For a USB stick, that would be

- On average, the actual capacity must be no less than what's advertised

- For a given product, the actual capacity must be no less than what's advertised, within a small margin

- Only usable capacity counts

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by josalhor on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:06AM (#34802322)
Totally agree. Something similar should also apply to laptops and smartphones. If your phone comes up with 30GB of bloatware on a 64GB device you should definitely not be allowed to advertise 64GB of space.
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by Vogtinator on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:18AM (#34802392)
Please no "on average" or margins. If it says 16GB, it has to be able to store at least 16GB.
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by phirus on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:34AM (#34802489)
Yes, the margin for potatoes is there because potatoes are discrete. A single potatoe weighs something around 100-300 grams, so hitting exactly 1kg is not that trivial. But bytes are bytes. If it says 16GB, I want at least 16GB.
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by esteth on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:38AM (#34802524)
I think allowing a small margin is fair, for the same reason as potatoes. When you manufacture a module some portion of the module will be unusable and disabled in testing.

In CPU-land this is done by manufacturers already - they manufacture many of the same generation of processor as the most performant version, and then test the individual items produced, disabling poorly constructed parts and downgrading the specification as they do it until they're left with a range of products at various performance points.

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by ciupicri on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @11:16AM (#34805885)
They should do the same with USB sticks, sell them to me as having 14 GB, not 16.
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by sowbug on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @10:31AM (#34805098)
And the distribution should remain normal: https://houstonstatisticians.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/poinca...
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by hinata08 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:28AM (#34802459)
I would expect the same for smartphones and computers.

it was really frustrating back in the times, when your brand new 8GB android smartphone only had 1 GB of free space out of the box (The 8GB edition of the Sony Xperia M4 Aqua only had 1.25GB of space for the user !)

Nowadays, devices have larger memories. But an android with mandatory apps and 'necessary data', or a Windows 11 can take around 20GB away. It can't be neglected on low end systems. There are still devices with 32, 64 or 80GB out there ! (your redmis or galaxy A XX)

Since most smartphone manufacturers won't let you use another OS or a custom ROM, all of that space should be reserved for them, and not advertised to the customer ! It's the same for computers. Most users buy the computer with the Windows, and will never replace it.

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by oarsinsync on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @06:51AM (#34802607)
Using the rules of food packaging… 958 / 1000 * 16GB = 15.76GB.
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by JadeNB on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @09:14AM (#34804004)
> Using the rules of food packaging… 958 / 1000 * 16GB = 15.76GB.

The figure was 985g, not 958g, but that's what you seem to have used in your calculation anyway. (Amusingly, when I pulled out bc to test which way you computed it, I immediately made exactly the same typo.)

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by unpopular42 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @07:28AM (#34802890)
Would that mean that the flour that sticks to the packaging walls does not count as unusable?
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by pbhjpbhj on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @07:57AM (#34803198)
I think it would be fair to make the regulation either way, so long as they put 1kg flour in the bag.

I'd imagine the trading standards would only check to about +/-0.5% (5g); whilst the flour on the bag's surface is probably around 1g for a kilo bag (1kg)?

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by unpopular42 on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @10:17AM (#34804909)
Well come on, imagine flour was a bit more sticky and if you put 1kg in the bag, only 900g is usable because the rest sticks to the walls. Would that be 1kg bag of flour or 900g bag of flour?
Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by jiri on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @07:29AM (#34802915)
Situation is really messed up.

I understand that 16GiB (16*2e30 bytes) chip is present (delivered to user), but some of it is broken and not available (industry standard). Therefore capacity is less than 16GiB. Also I believe that there is a threshold, that manufacturer is using to throw away chip that are too broken to be sold. Ok so far.

So proper declared capacity should be threshold value (minimum) or threshold to maximum value declared range. I understand that this proper capacity is not very nice round number.

Problem has past: Around 2000, manufacturers started using GB (10e9) instead of GiB (2e30) that gives them some margin (7%) for chip defects. Later margin was not enough, so they started using more misleading specs like this. It seems that margin is at least 10% nowadays instead of <7% in the past.

Personally, I would be satisfied with stated margin size (like 7%, 10%, 12% etc) to maximum capacity, f.e. "USB flash drive 16GB max capacity, at least 90% usable."

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by pwg on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @09:17AM (#34804050)
> Problem has past: Around 2000, manufacturers started using GB (10e9) instead of GiB (2e30) that gives them some margin (7%) for chip defects

It actually started somewhere around 1995 -- with mechanical disk makers all choosing to advertise GB drives using the power of ten instead of the power of two, while maintaining the same labeling on the outer box.

And the reason was not to account for "chip defects" -- it allowed them to ship slightly less capacity, but print on the box a number that appeared larger to those who did not read the 4 point type fine print on the back.

Re:Shrinkflation, SanDisk Style by Aachen on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @10:26AM (#34805023)
(Note that 1e9 is 1 000 000 000 and 2e30 is 2 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000, different from 2^30.)