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Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by pastdiscovery on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @11:56AM (#34792202)
> But, Mr. Rector said, previous experiments in cash assistance, like a “negative income tax” program for the poor in the 1970s, showed ... negative impacts on marriage that lasted long after the efforts ended.

It feels like using marriage volume or divorce volume as a negative signal is a terrible idea.

People not feeling forced into marriage because it's more or less necessary to get by or progress in a post-suffrage economy for the working class is probably a good thing.

The couple who raised me each noted it had been at least partially rooted in economics, and if they had more time to figure things out, they probably wouldn't have gotten married. It worked out to a degree for them, they have some degree of happiness, some of the time; they love one another. It also has caused immense harm: They share nothing in common, they fight all the time due to fundamentally different styles of communication and relatively different belief systems.

If an increase in the divorce rate happens due to better economic conditions, this probably signals there were a lot of couplings that were not really good for the participants, but necessary to maintain a certain quality of life. It also could signal people leaving abusers. Is keeping "zombie relationships" worth it?

Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @01:03PM (#34793296)
I'm no fan of marriage the institution but the results are clear. Policies that incentivize couples who would be married to not marry leads to worse outcomes for both parties at scale as well as any kids. It is regrettable that some may feel trapped in marriages that aren't working but the numbers don't lie. I don't want to make this a race thing because it's not but look at what happened to the urban blacks who had this kind of policy peddled hard at them starting in the 1960s. They regressed on tons of metrics that are closely tied to household stability. Your advocating for something that has been tried and failed.
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by TrinaryWorksToo on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @01:12PM (#34793459)
What numbers are you referring to?
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by nwah1 on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @02:10PM (#34794367)
The well-known numbers that have been known since the Moynihan Report.
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by RC_ITR on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:31PM (#34798358)
Come on, give its full title...
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by toomanyrichies on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:46PM (#34798488)
I didn't know what it was either. OP is likely referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For...

Commonly known as the Moynihan Report. It has its supporters and its detractors. I have no opinion on it since this is the first I'm hearing of it.

Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by GauntletWizard on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:46PM (#34798491)
At the time, the title was the opposite of a slur. Now, it would paint the report in a different light.
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by gotoeleven on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:47PM (#34798499)
United Negro College Fund

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People

Can't win an argument? Throw chaff in the air with some language policing.

Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by quxbar on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:59PM (#34798585)
Not so much chaff as a point that the thing itself is so outdated our very language has had time to radically change.
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by RC_ITR on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @08:27PM (#34798854)
I will assume you've read the full document and are fine with the things it says, since you're so confident it's a well written/thought-out piece that just accidentally has an extremely outdated name.

I think it's a tough argument to make that single-mothers lead to resentful anti-social children, but, hey, maybe I should be more open-minded.

>...The primary unit may again become mother and child, the biologically given, and the special conditions under which man has held his social traditions in trust are violated and distorted.

E. Franklin Frazier makes clear that at the time of emancipation Negro women were already “accustomed to playing the dominant role in family and marriage relations” and that this role persisted in the decades of rural life that followed...

...Although the families studied were white, the pattern would clearly seem to be a general one, and apply to Negro families as well.

The first two stages end with the exhaustion of credit and the entry of the wife into the labor force. The father is no longer the provider and the elder children become resentful.

The third stage is the critical one of commencing a new day-to-day existence. At this point two women are in charge:

“Consider the fact that relief investigators or case workers are normally women and deal with the housewife. Already suffering a loss in prestige and authority in the family because of his failure to be the chief bread winner, the male head of the family feels deeply this obvious transfer of planning for the family’s well-being to two women, one of them an outsider. His role is reduced to that of errand boy to and from the relief office.”

Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by giraffe_lady on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:21PM (#34797020)
Was there anything else happening to black americans in the second half of the 20th century?
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by nxm on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:37PM (#34798406)
Anything worse than the first half of the 20th century, when nuclear families were in tact?
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by ashwagary on Wednesday February 15, 2023 @01:56PM (#34808771)
More granular targeting of black communities by federal and state governments through the massive shift in economic policies perhaps.
Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by RC_ITR on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:30PM (#34798347)
>They regressed on tons of metrics that are closely tied to and both predict and are predicted by household stability.

Sure, Black people are also living a lot longer which seems like a good outcome in terms of quality of life. [1]

[1]https://spia.princeton.edu/news/life-expectancy-gap-between-...

Re:$500 a Month, No Strings: Chicago Experiments with a Guar... by jjtheblunt on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:43PM (#34798463)
is there data viewable online that you refer to?