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Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by vineyardmike on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @12:22AM (#34785688)
No one knows.

People thought this about general internet postings then 230 saved the companies. Governments seem a lot less likely to “help” the companies today though.

It’ll likely be decided similarly to copyrights: with messy and impactful trials. If the prompter owns a copyright, then you the searcher may end up responsible for the AIs statements (probs not though).

Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by graeme on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @01:58AM (#34786326)
Section 230 was about hosting user comments though. A company is still liable for what they publish.

Microsoft, for example, can’t publish an article on Microsoft.com defaming people and cite section 230.

However, they can link to defamatory sites and excerpt snippets from them, for that isn’t considered publishing.

Bing chat seems an awful lot more like publishing.

Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by vineyardmike on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @04:26AM (#34787206)
The point is that pre-230, no one knew who was liable for comments, and 230 clarified. The tech industry needs a law detailing who is liable, the way 230 clarified.

The AI-Generated art world seems to want the prompter to be the "artist", but if you prompt bing for search... are you the "creator"? It seems unlikely. On the other hand, Microsoft is "simply" using an algorithm to rehash the existing web.. just like search results page did before, so this is no different.

Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by gardenhedge on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @06:42AM (#34788037)
ChatGPT is the publisher by the fact it has restrictions on your prompts. "As an AI model I can not provide..." etc.
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by matt74827289 on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @02:20PM (#34794522)
Moderation of content does not imply publishing.
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by graeme on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @02:40PM (#34794794)
Someone is the publisher. It can’t be nobody
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by gardenhedge on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:01PM (#34796783)
Does Word moderate what I type into it? No because it's a tool. ChatGPT publishes
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by graeme on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:23AM (#34788346)
The web sites in search results were always liable for defamation though. And Microsoft/Google could have been had they rewritten snippets to falsely suggest a page had defamatory information (they don’t)
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by dragonwriter on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:07PM (#34796861)
> The point is that pre-230, no one knew who was liable for comments, and 230 clarified.

That's not really true; pre-230 there waa a pretty clear idea of how, absent additional legislation, traditional publisher and distributor liability would apply to online services, and what incentives that created with regard to offering, moderating, and engaging with such services. Section 230 was very much intended to alter the economic incentives, not just to “clarify” liability.

Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by dragonwriter on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:25PM (#34797070)
> Section 230 was about hosting user comments though.

No, 230 is not about “hosting”, its about (what would, absent Section 230, legally be) publishing.

> Microsoft, for example, can’t publish an article on Microsoft.com defaming people and cite section 230.

It absolutely can, if some other “information content provider” submitted the information in it, because they are not legally it’s publisher in that case; that is the central point of § 230. [0]

The question here seems to be what happens when the way interactive computer services relay information from other internet content providers is by farther from relaying distinct externally provided content units that may be mixed, ordered, promoted, demoted, or suppressed by an algorithm, and instead synthesizing new content units from externally provided and actively sourced information.

But the 230 safe harbor doesn’t focus on content units (by any name), it focuses on information, so as long as the defamation comea from information provided by another “information content provider”, no matter what algorithmic means and content structure goes into presenting it, it would seem squarely within the safe harbor.

When defamation arises not from a particular third-party source material, but only from the algorithmic synthesis, things get trickier, but if its all third partt information (even separate pieces of it that the algorithm presents together) it still seems within the safe harbor.

When its (in whole or in part) information Microsoft actively sourced or that the MS-operated algorithm created ex nihilo (hallucination) that makes it defamation, though, that would seem to be Microsoft’s liability.

[0] 47 USC § 230(c)(1): No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.

Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by fragmede on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @02:41AM (#34786578)
how about getting song lyrics out of bing or ChatGPT? those are covered under copyright, aren't they?
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by muzani on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:31AM (#34787601)
Google already does this so I assume it's in line with the law. If they get the lyrics wrong, maybe that's under fair use?
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @06:33AM (#34787982)
Google pays for the right to display lyrics, but if they display them incorrectly that might be an issue. Especially if the wrong version somehow goes against the morals of the artist.
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by muzani on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:20AM (#34788318)
Aha, I didn't know they were paying for it.
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by nickthegreek on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:12AM (#34790393)
Chat with Bing has found to be given explicit instructions to not give out book passages and music lyrics. This came out the other day when someone was about to get it to say its code name (Sydney) along with it default prompt set.
Re:Ask HN: Will Microsoft be liable for defamatory Bing stat... by dragonwriter on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @05:39PM (#34797250)
> People thought this about general internet postings then 230 saved the companies.

Not just the companies, also other users whose actions (e.g., reply with quote) would be “publication” under the law without Section 230.