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Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:34AM (#34774693)
The small guy can't afford to abide by these vague and over-reaching regulations, is my point.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:36AM (#34774755)
It doesn't cost you anything to not collect my PII.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:50AM (#34775021)
What if you are abusing a service? Can I collect it then?
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:56AM (#34775133)
This is quite a leap from unnecessary phone home request to check version, but alas it already has been answered in depth in other comments.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:02AM (#34775239)
Not a leap. The conversation jumped to the broader conversation of GDPR and PII a few comments up.

Running a service that might serve an EU citizen quickly escalates to involving lawyers and performing risk analysis in relation to being sued in a court across the ocean.

Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:27AM (#34775635)
>Running a service that might serve an EU citizen quickly escalates to involving lawyers and performing risk analysis in relation to being sued in a court across the ocean.

Running any service where you are not sure of legal requirements might require consulting a lawyer first, how is it unique to GDPR? And in order to be on the radar for GDPR violations as a small business you REALLY need to do something seriously wrong.

Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @12:01PM (#34776253)
I actually think I may be mistaken.

I've always believed GDPR was a regulation that crossed borders. Meaning it applies to any EU citizen, no matter where they are located, which is what made this unique (being that it's not my countries laws). But:

> The GDPR applies to: > > a company established outside the EU and is offering goods/services (paid or for free) or is monitoring the behaviour of individuals in the EU.

from https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...

So now I'm wondering if an IP address reverse-geo lookup to block IPs in the EU is the easy way out for many online services, presuming that this doesn't cause compliance issues for EU users using a VPN.

Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Monday February 13, 2023 @12:04PM (#34776323)
It sure is a good way to communicate that you don't care about my privacy and should not be getting my money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:23AM (#34789666)
GDPR is a headache and makes doing the right thing harder.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:24AM (#34789699)
No.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @10:33AM (#34790762)
Yes.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by arp242 on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:59AM (#34776196)
Yes.

"Processing shall be lawful only if and to the extent that at least one of the following applies: [..] processing is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate interests pursued by the controller or by a third party, except where such interests are overridden by the interests or fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject which require protection of personal data"

Reasonable abuse protection clearly falls under that, as has been fairly clearly stated even in the GDPR itself: https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-49/

Re:Debian Privacy Issues by Uvix on Monday February 13, 2023 @12:36PM (#34776972)
But I don't know what counts as PII because the regulations are so vague.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by JohnFen on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @09:53AM (#34790139)
All of the legal definitions of "PII" leave out a ton that is actually personally-identifying information. Just have personal standards that exceed all of the laws. No problem.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by tpxl on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:41AM (#34774848)
Stop spreading bullshit. GDPR is incredibly easy to comply with if you don't do retarded shit.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:48AM (#34774999)
Like attempting to protect a service against abuse? Do that and be 100% confident your aren't in violation and post an easy step-by-step tutorial on how to do it.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by tpxl on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:52AM (#34775055)
Using IPs to protect from abuse has been debated to death and is considered legitimate use.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:15AM (#34775435)
Just some questions off the top of my head, that I, a FOSS developer have, and can not say with absolutely certainty that an EU court won't have problems with.

How long can the IP kept around for? And in what form? If it lands in a database, does it need to be encrypted at rest? Can it just be hashed? Salted, too? Do I need to rotate the salt? This limits the ability to protect the service though. Are the tools in my stack logging something somewhere else I don't know about? Could I get in trouble if it is? Cloudflare forwards IP-derived data to me, like the city of IP may be in, do I have to be concerned with that as well? Do I have to tell users upfront that I use Cloudflare and it derives data? I'm guessing I have to fully understand what CLoudflare does with this data. It eventually hits my Digital Ocean droplet, what does it log?, are there separate logs I can access from them outside my droplet? Certainly they have logs, too, what do I do about that? If I just require all users to explicitly agree to some form of data collection this probably goes away. Oh wait, now I have to manage obvious PII and ensure Right to be Forgotten can be exercised in a timely fashion, I've just made the whole thing more difficult for myself.

There is a cost, and it affect the small honest devs the most.

I'm not saying what GDPR is attempting to do is a bad thing, I'm just saying that it is not easy to comply like everyone keeps saying.

Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:25AM (#34775603)
Those questions are not in good faith, and answers are readily available and have been for a long time. e.g https://law.stackexchange.com/a/28609
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by davidmurdoch on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:44AM (#34775918)
How can you say the questions aren't in good faith and then link to a popular Stack Exchange question and argument about some of them? Developers do need to ask these questions.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by neoromantique on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:47AM (#34775972)
I am saying that you in this particular instance are not asking those questions in good faith.
Re:Debian Privacy Issues by scoutt on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @04:00AM (#34787080)
An IP by itself is not PII.

You have to be sure that you or anyone else in your chain can't link an IP to a specific person without explicit consent (and thus compliant with the rest of the regulation).

You can have cloudflare giving you IP/location pairs as long as cloudflare doesn't know who that person is.

You can keep your own logs of IP/person. You have to keep it safe, and inform somewhere in a policy that you are doing that. If the logs are kept abroad or cloud, then you need consent (and comply with the rest of the regulation).

It's all made to avoid companies tracking using across boundaries, selling data and having all that PII unwarranted for the next "We take your data and security very seriously" blog post about a leak.

It's easier not to keep any PII around. IPs? you can have as many as you want as long it can't be used to identify a person (without consent).

PS: here is a checklist => https://gdpr.eu/checklist/