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Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by LinuxBender on Monday February 13, 2023 @08:50AM (#34773324)
Am I wrong to be concerned?

I don't think so. Normalcy bias is strong in the public right now and I don't blame people for wanting simple explanations for the recent events.

Regarding the balloons my unpopular opinion is that they may have received intel that the spy balloons are to condition the US into complacency and then replace the payload with something else using a later set of balloons. This would never make it into the news. Given that the military have recently been given pre-approval to take down anything that is deemed to be a threat that tells me there are more chess pieces in motion than we are aware of.

Regarding Russia I see a lot of comments about Russia never possibly using nukes. Adding to my unpopular opinions nobody can say that with confidence. Russia are approaching the end of their existence as a nation and are losing the numbers needed to fight their traditional methods of kinetic warfare and the only option left on the table is nukes. They just need an excuse. Existential threat has been the repeat narrative from the Kremlin and that is the legal language written into their laws regarding the use of nuclear weapons.

I can't speak for anyone else but I will do my best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by nradov on Monday February 13, 2023 @09:45AM (#34773971)
Let's say Russia does decide to use nukes. What would they target? Their main objective in the war is to seize control of Ukrainian energy and agricultural resources; they don't want to turn it into an irradiated wasteland.

Using a nuke against Ukrainian military forces would be a waste since they are now dispersed and dug in. Many of those forces are close to Russian forces so a nuclear strike would endanger their own troops.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by tacon on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:18AM (#34774454)
>Many of those forces are close to Russian forces so a nuclear strike would endanger their own troops.

If one thing is blindingly obvious lately, it is that Russia doesn't care about their own troops, only about winning. Peter Zeihan reminds us that historically Russia needs to lose about a half million men before they consider giving up on a war.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by smegger001 on Monday February 13, 2023 @06:41PM (#34782673)
and many of those men are mercenaries, conscripted convicts, and drafted ethnic minorities who they haven't bothered to equip, do the decision makers care about them enough not to nuke them? Would they even count them as a loss?
Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by LinuxBender on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:08AM (#34774297)
Their main objective in the war is to seize control of Ukrainian energy and agricultural resources

I do not believe that is their primary objective. Should any resources survive their onslaught they are just bonus material. They have already destroyed most of the factories train tracks and a good deal of the power generation. Russia have no ability currently to replace these things or to rebuild Ukraine which would be necessary in order to make use of the lands resources.

What would they target?

The remaining power, hospitals, the remaining agricultural factories to starve everyone. That alone would drive out most of the remaining people. I believe the primary objective is to secure Russia. That requires conquering all neighboring former Soviet countries and Ukraine is just in the way and has a nice bonus water port. Should they succeed in taking Ukraine this spring then I would expect Poland and/or Finland to be attacked at some point later on.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by jemmyw on Monday February 13, 2023 @09:26PM (#34784404)
Secure Russia against what?

I don't think that's the objective. The objective imo is to take down a government and country that is challenging the Russian people see them as kin and yet their getting more democratic, removing (some) corruption and moving closer to economic partnership with the EU. Putin has to destroy a brighter future for the people of Ukraine to prevent his own populace seeing that future as a possibility for themselves.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by LinuxBender on Tuesday February 14, 2023 @07:57AM (#34788625)
Putin has to destroy a brighter future for the people of Ukraine to prevent his own populace seeing that future as a possibility for themselves.

There is a lot of truth in that as well. I'm sure its a major driving force for him and others around him. They are a vestigial legacy that will cease to exist in any meaningful manor once most of the dictatorships and faux democracies fall.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by danaris on Monday February 13, 2023 @10:44AM (#34774908)
Putin's primary objective, from everything I've seen and read, is to be able to reassemble at least some vestige of the former USSR with himself at its head.

At this point, I'd say it seems to be an open question whether or how much it matters to him how much of that land is actually habitable.

It also seems like a) he views Ukraine as a somewhat rebellious province—daring to defy him, its rightful ruler—and b) he views Ukrainians as Russians, and furthermore believes that any Ukrainian who does not subscribe to this view is either traitorous or mentally ill...so I could see some fairly strong arguments for him deciding that they "deserve" to be nuked.

Honestly, in my view, the strongest argument for the position that Putin won't use nukes is simply that he hasn't done so already, despite many fairly significant setbacks in his attempted annexation of Ukraine.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by IAmGraydon on Monday February 13, 2023 @11:53AM (#34776091)
>Russia are approaching the end of their existence as a nation

I'm curious why you think that.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by LinuxBender on Monday February 13, 2023 @03:31PM (#34779936)
There are differing opinions on this but the most complete and eloquent I have heard recently was from Peter Zeihan [1]. I wish people would challenge his takes in the Youtube comments but the only time I have seen that was when he was on Joe Rogans podcast and even then they had nothing to back their statements.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXtScb_IZdg

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by pshirshov on Monday February 13, 2023 @12:45PM (#34777143)
> Russia are approaching the end of their existence as a nation

Everything seems to be pointing to that, I really hope you are right.

> regarding the use of nuclear weapons

If they do that they are done. Also I'm not sure if they still have any working nukes. The maintenance is too expensive and I've seen how the things really are in russian science and aerospace industry. I would say that I would be surprised if the situation with nuclear crap is better.

Re:United States tells citizens: Leave Russia immediately by smegger001 on Monday February 13, 2023 @06:35PM (#34782598)
>If they do that they are done.

unfortunately so are a lot of other people to. If they know they are done if the do a limited exchange then there is not reason not to let the whole arsenal off and go out in blaze of glory and hope the first mover advantage means you took out enough of everyone else nuclear capacity that is survivable for you. hopefully some sane adult in the room is able to remind the would be button pusher that nuclear submarines exist as a second strike and will get them no matter how many icbm launch facilities they took out.