News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by twic on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @04:52AM (#34690723)
Historically, it's because exchanges were real places that people went to, and it would be expensive and pointless to run them all night.

These days, there is a trend towards opening hours getting longer (eg [1]).

But there is still value to limited hours. Off the top of my head:

1. Liquidity gets concentrated. If there is a fixed amount of end-user demand (inflows into pension funds, oil production to hedge), then shorter hours means sort of 'denser' trading, which in turn means more quantity on the books, tighter prices, and better efficiency.

2. Trading is still done under human direction, or at least under human supervision, so shorter hours are less demanding on staffing. It's possible to run a productive soybean trading desk with two people at the moment. You'd need six people if trading was round the clock, and those people aren't cheap. Or else desks don't trade the whole day, and they miss out on opportunities, and other participants get less competition, and so worse efficiency.

3. Closing the market gives participants time to do various kinds of admin related to trading. Options markets close earlier than their corresponding futures markets, so that options market makers can get their position cleanly hedged. Bond markets close before repo desk traders go to the pub, so that bond trades can get financed.

[1] https://www.eurex.com/resource/blob/2845114/ae56de359f7a578e...

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by devnullbrain on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @05:20AM (#34690921)
>Closing the market gives participants time to do various kinds of admin related to trading.

Trading firms can restart their software to fix the memory leaks.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by cwillu on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @06:31AM (#34691380)
Just another generation in the garbage collector.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by dahfizz on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @08:57AM (#34692768)
If anyone is wondering, this is not a joke. Some of the trading systems I've worked on were designed to be restarted every night. The memory didn't "leak", but was designed this way - preallocate all the memory you could need, and its "freed" when you restart at night.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by planede on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @09:28AM (#34693168)
> preallocate all the memory you could need

Well, why did they have to restart if they never made any further allocations? This does not add up.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by dahfizz on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @09:53AM (#34693517)
Because the memory fills up. You pre-allocate a million orders, and send 800k orders a day, leaving only 200k free slots. You're going to run out mid day tomorrow if you don't restart.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by planede on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:36AM (#34694133)
Ah, OK. But I would characterize this as an internal allocator that never deallocates. You might as well replace `malloc` and `free` to do the same, and just allocate within the program normally.

Just because you "preallocate" it doesn't mean that you don't implement a poor man's allocator inside the preallocated buffer.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by dahfizz on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @11:43AM (#34695058)
Sure, but calling malloc at runtime is slow and maintaining an allocator isn't very useful if you can just restart the app every night. YAGNI ;)
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by JamesSwift on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:47AM (#34694283)
That just sounds like a memory leak with more words. Is the memory reclaimed/reclaimable? No? Ok then it leaked. If the system were able to reclaim the memory from the order, you wouldn't need to restart it. The memory arena strategy doesnt change that.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by TeMPOraL on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:27PM (#34717220)
It's still a fine strategy. One "formal" name for it I've heard is "null garbage collector". It may feel dirty, but it's pragmatic: if the program runs in cycles with well-defined starts and ends, restarting it reclaims all memory and brings the program to a well-known state.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by LgWoodenBadger on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @11:48AM (#34695138)
I buy all the groceries I need for a week. That's realistically achievable (cost, cargo capacity of my vehicle, storage capacity at home, etc.).

I buy all the groceries I need from now until the end of time. That's not realistically achievable, from any perspective.

Allocating all the memory you need for a day is realistically achievable. Allocating all the memory you need until the end of time is not realistically achievable.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by recursive on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:19PM (#34696708)
The grocery analogy doesn't work. When you're "done" with a particular "grocery", it's gone. It doesn't exist anymore. When you're done using a block of memory, you can use it again and again and again. Assuming you remembered to free it. Groceries work more like write-once memory.

Still sounds like a leak to me.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by TeMPOraL on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:34PM (#34717310)
It's a "leak" only if it creates problems for you, such as slowdown or risk of running out of memory. In this case, there are no such problems - memory use and execution time are both bounded. The memory gets automatically reclaimed when the program restarts (that's the job of the OS, and if it fails at it, you can always reboot the machine).

It's a perfectly fine way of engineering a system.

There's also a variant of this that's been used on missiles - basically, you put enough RAM on the weapon to guarantee it'll hit its target or run out of fuel before running out of memory.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by twic on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:12AM (#34693798)
Restarting software once a day to work around memory leaks is real amateur-hour stuff. Mine does it every 10-20 minutes.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by TeMPOraL on Wednesday February 08, 2023 @06:38PM (#34717356)
The real pros generalized this concept into so-called "supervision trees" - building your system as a hierarchy, where whenever a program misbehaves in any way, it gets restarted by a higher-level program, which itself will also be restarted if it can't get a handle on things, recursively to the top of hierarchy.

(Yes, talking about Erlang/OTP here.)

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by none_to_remain on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @11:44AM (#34695068)
Yep.

I once was tracking a white whale of a memory leak. Along the way I was able to optimize memory usage of the leaked objects. So I got to the point where I thought maybe the leak was caused by simultaneous read, update, and delete operations on a single key, but by then I'd improved memory usage such that weekly, rather than nightly restarts were needed. The futures markets at the time were 24/7 but with a maintenance period on the weekends, so my boss just told me to leave it and let the restarts garbage collect.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by toyg on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @06:56AM (#34691577)
> You'd need six people if trading was round the clock, and those people aren't cheap.

That's not a good argument. If there were more openings for that kind of position, more people would apply, and average remunerations would get lower.

The real problem is that this would effectively distribute wealth (and access to wealth) more widely, and the ruling classes can't have that as a matter of principle.

Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by TheCoelacanth on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @09:52AM (#34693510)
Higher demand leading to lower prices? That's an interesting hypothesis.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by toyg on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @11:22AM (#34694750)
It's not a hypothesis, it's how the mass-market works. Take computation: as demand rose and rose, prices fell and fell. And yes, the education and career systems have commonalities with manufacturing.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by rfrey on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @11:57AM (#34695302)
In computation, the supply rose much faster (faster chips, cloud computing) than demand until the advent of widespread ML. And I haven't noticed the price falling much in the last few years.
Re:They say that stocks go down during the day and up at night by twic on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @10:15AM (#34693836)
Hiring six traders instead of two does not strike me as a form of wealth redistribution effective enough to warrant the attention of the all-powerful Illuminati, although i'll ask them next time i see them just in case.