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Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by rayiner on Monday February 06, 2023 @09:21PM (#34687762)
> Marxism is distinguished as an ideology by totalizing class consciousness. That's the opposite of wokeness, which ratifies identity politics.

It's an ideology that replaces Marxism's "totalizing class consciousness" with a "totalizing race consciousness."

> Just how much work is the word "neo" doing in that name?

A lot, and the "Marxism" is doing very little. It's a clumsy construction. But the meaning is clear in context.

> "Collapsed mainline Protestantism"? Explain!

It’s a religious revival, but without Jesus. They’re descendants of Puritans who don’t believe the theology anymore, but have the same religious zeal, sense of moral universalism, and faith that America's institutions belong to them. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbxQqKXUIk (warning: offensive period language). I’ve had several experiences with woke whites where, when I pointed out that the minorities they purport to speak for disagreed with them about this or that, they responded with the same sentiment as Matt Damon in the final line of that clip.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by tptacek on Monday February 06, 2023 @09:53PM (#34688065)
So it's... not Marxism at all. None of the rest of Marx makes sense if you replace "class" with "race". Who owns the means of production? Or is it the means of something else now? It's like calling capitalism "neo-fascism", or, for that matter, taking any ${BADTHING} and attaching neo- to it to craft a slur.

The meaning is clear in context because you know who he's talking about. But you just called this "the best description you've seen", and it's not a description in the least.

I don't care that you disagree with DEI types and with wokeism in general. I have my own qualms! But don't elevate hucksters like Rufo. And stop following him on Twitter. He's a clown.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by MockObject on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @01:30PM (#34696892)
> So it's... not Marxism at all. None of the rest of Marx makes sense if you replace "class" with "race".

Correct, and in fact, many Marxists are virulently against CRT/wokeness, because it distracts from class as the central conflict in society.

Critics crudely call CRT/wokeness "Marxist" because it's a conflict perspective.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by tptacek on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @02:26PM (#34697943)
Right, but the world is full of conflict perspectives, not least among right-wingers. They can't all be Marxists, just because Gramsci came up with an ultra-generalizable concept.

(I think we agree, just writing it down to clarify my thoughts).

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by MockObject on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @02:32PM (#34698041)
We do agree here.

It's interesting that calling CRT "Marxist" gives the Fox News watchers a familiar enemy to fulminate against, and it gives the CRT peddlers themselves unearned credibility as dangerous dissidents, so it's a misidentification that serves everyone but the dwindling number of actual Marxists, and pedants bent on accuracy.

Re:Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC... by tptacek on Tuesday February 07, 2023 @02:57PM (#34698514)
Yeah! Suck it, Maciej!