News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by tshaddox on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @06:29PM (#34619696)
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's reasonable for teachers to give assignments where the resulting artifact is not itself of direct value to the subject matter, but where the only feasible way for the student to produce the artifact is via a process that is supposed to be of educational value. I'm just saying that when new ways emerge to produce that artifact which don't have the same supposed educational value to the student, the assignment itself needs to change.

I don't think your analogy to lifting weights or running is appropriate. A more appropriate analogy would be a physical education teacher who says "your assignment is to meet me on the other side of town in 30 minutes" because the only feasible way to get there is to run. Obviously the point is to get the physical activity, not to be on the other side of town. Then the bicycle gets invented, and suddenly it requires much less strenuous activity to get across town. All I'm saying is that it's vital for the teacher to realize that being on the other side of town was never actually the point, and to change the assignment so that students still get the intended amount of physical activity.

Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by Gigachad on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @06:37PM (#34619787)
It's more like "your assignment is to run to other side of town in 30 minutes" but due to resource constraints, it's not easy or possible to monitor you the entire way. Its also not possible to redesign the task without constant monitoring of everyone.
Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by danuker on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @06:46PM (#34619903)
I suppose a human teacher not being able to come up with an assignment not easily solvable by computers is a new level of the Turing test.

Therefore the assignment itself must include a requirement not to use a computer.

Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by genghisjahn on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @08:12PM (#34620673)
>It's reasonable for teachers to give assignments where the resulting artifact is not itself of direct value to the subject matter, but where the only feasible way for the student to produce the artifact is via a process that is supposed to be of educational value.

Reminds of this scene from A River Runs Through It.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA-sEfXOaEQ&ab_channel=Grady...

Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by palata on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @08:38PM (#34620898)
I would argue that if the student doesn't understand that the value of the exercise is to run, and they take their car instead, then something needs to be explained to them.

There are two ways: you can try to design exercises that students cannot abuse, or you can try to have the students actually understand why they should do the exercise and not abuse it.

Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by jdaxe on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @09:04PM (#34621103)
Students are often thinking of how to maximise their grades and efficiently use their time in the short term rather than how to best learn the subject matter. Anyone who has had to deal with assignment deadlines can understand why a student may choose to take such a shortcut if it's available, even to their own detriment in the long term.
Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by sillysaurusx on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @09:30PM (#34621288)
Implying anything learned in high school is of benefit long term… ha.

Someone recently described their high school experience as “slightly better than prison.” I agreed. If you want to fix education, perhaps start at the root of where we force kids to do bullshit work.

Teaching them how to do their taxes would be infinitely more valuable than memorizing pointless geographical locations (solved by google maps) or names of dead white people in history class (also solved by google) or forcing them to learn Spanish (google translate). The experience was so unpleasant that I didn’t realize until my 20’s that I actually love studying history.

Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by palata on Thursday February 02, 2023 @08:18AM (#34626102)
I don't completely agree. I mean it should not feel like prison, and putting pressure with grades is not necessarily good.

But I don't think that school is about learning useful stuff. There is plenty of time to learn a boring job/how to do taxes after school. School should be an opportunity to learn how to learn, and to discover new things.

Because you don't need it in your job later doesn't mean it's bullshit.

Re:Princeton CS Prof: ChatGPT Is a Bullshit Generator (2022) by palata on Thursday February 02, 2023 @08:15AM (#34626078)
Sure. I'm honestly not a big fan of grades, to be honest. But that's a hard problem: some students will be better with grades, some without, and some won't care.

Still I don't believe that the goal in school is to learn useful stuff. The goal is to learn how to learn, and to discover stuff. There is plenty of time then to learn how to do a boring job.