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Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by alldayeveryday on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:13PM (#34613749)
> First, you lump all of queer culture into one group, a false categorization without which your augment fails.

In fact, I do lump them onto one group. Many subgroups inside a group. You know who I am referring to when I say queer culture. The group exists, it isn't false. Colors keep getting added to the flag. Rather than engage with reality you prefer to have useless rhetorical debates. Let's move past that.

>Second, you assert that being in the overwhelmingly dominant racial group, the overwhelmingly dominant sexual orientation and the undeniably dominant gender should somehow be interpreted at "counterculture" even though the group that fits that definition is numerically larger, wealthier, and politically empowered than any other group.

Culture is often not aligned with majority opinions, majority positions or majority orientations. The culture of the 60s was hippies. Most people were not hippies. Your premise is false here that culture is the same as majority, or political empowerment.

I welcome a more honest response.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by standardUser on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:15PM (#34613810)
The culture of the 60s was not hippies, they were the counterculture by any possible definition.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by alldayeveryday on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:26PM (#34614041)
I guess I just have the view that if I am turning on the radio, the TV, watching a movie, a tv show, celebrity voices, the state department, etc - and I am seeing the counterculture, then I am actually just seeing the culture.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by yamazakiwi on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @01:37PM (#34615312)
Seeing a government body virtue-signal by putting up a flag is not the same as the actual lives that queer people live, which varies WILDLY from the norm thus making it counter cultural.

In fact, many queer people force themselves out of the community by living within the norm to feel more acceptance from the majority (counter-counter culture).

Your perception is also obviously very specific to where you live on this planet.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by lmm on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @10:12PM (#34621567)
> Seeing a government body virtue-signal by putting up a flag is not the same as the actual lives that queer people live

The same thing goes for anything that could be described as "queer culture". Plenty of queer people have, and want, nothing to do with the groups and spaces that present themselves as "the community".

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by alldayeveryday on Thursday February 02, 2023 @09:44AM (#34627150)
A given queer person's level of identification with the broader community is of no relevance to the question of whether the broader culture of the community is countercultural. When the culture itself is used as a political tool by a state actor, I no longer classify the culture as countercultural. Rather, I see it as a weaponized mechanism of cultural subversion.

Sure, the hippie movement was branded countercultural. But to what purpose? Note that during the period, the US government was engaged in a large scale remaking of America both domestically and internationally. Domestically, we saw the remaking of immigration policies to no longer bias towards those of European descent, and instead towards what favored macro capitalism (the import of cheaper and low skilled labor). Internationally the US was scaling up engagement in hot and cold wars and no longer considering itself bound to the constitutional provisions for war. Low and behold, during this period, a "counterculture" arises which glorifies drug use, the dissolution of the nuclear family and pushes forward the vapid strain of hyper individualism that we see today. Suddenly the anti-war movement is associated with drug use and degeneracy, whilst the nation's racial consciousness is broken in time to welcome a new wave of immigrants to help improve the margins of big business.

Note that the current "woke" counterculture follows the same pattern. Increased individualism, sublimated racial awareness, dissolution of family, and rampant degeneracy. Meanwhile the state continues its hegemonic march of constant international agitation.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by jmoss20 on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @02:35PM (#34616304)
You most certainly were not seeing hippies endorsed by the state department in the 60s. (Though, that we look back on the hippies of the 60s fondly does say something about the direction we've charted since then.)
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by burkaman on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:47PM (#34614447)
I'm pretty sure the word counterculture was literally invented to describe hippies in the 60s.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by jhbadger on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @01:19PM (#34614985)
Close. It was invented in 1960, prior to the hippie movement and referring to their predecessors, the beatniks of the 1950s.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by burkaman on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @01:37PM (#34615322)
I wasn't alive so I'm just going off casual web searches, but most people seem to credit this 1969 book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Making_of_a_Counter_Cultur.... It was not the literal first usage, but the word was definitely not widely known before the 60s: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=counterculture.... But I said literally and it wasn't literally true, so my bad.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by antod on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @01:13PM (#34614870)
I'm guessing beatniks in the 50s myself.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by snozolli on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @05:15PM (#34618732)
The culture of the 60s was hippies.

The (US) culture of the 60s was nuclear families, medium haircuts, fitted suits, and the Space Race.

The counterculture was hippies, mop-topped youngsters, and civil rights activists.

Your closing line is laughable.