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Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by PuppyTailWags on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:36AM (#34613023)
Really confused by this statement. I think queer culture can be countercultural depending. For example legislation is currently up in some states to ban dressing in a way outside your sex because drag queens exist, but even though drag queens have a tv show and a movie and stuff I'm sure it'll also probably scoop a butch lesbian or two or just a regular tomboy woman.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by zmgsabst on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:43AM (#34613159)
What are you talking about?

There’s routine cases of institutional actors like teachers and their unions trying to groom kids into being “trans”, without talking to the parents.

Counter culture is saying that you’re not allowed to do that — eg, that drag queen story time is a bad idea.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by dashundchen on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:48AM (#34613260)
> There’s routine cases of institutional actors like teachers and their unions trying to groom kids into being “trans”, without talking to the parents

That's not happening except in the fevered minds of the far-right. Get a grip.

It's nothing but a moral panic we've seen again and again (in the 60s hippies, 70s punks, 80s goths and Satanists, then gay people, now furries and trans people - all coming for your kids)

Meanwhile we endlessly discover Catholics, Southern Baptists and other sects have actually systemically covered up child abuse by their leaders across the US. But you don't see anyone warning you against bringing your kid to church.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by lezojeda on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:59AM (#34613471)
I'm starting to think some people really _don't_ mind weird old dudes in tunics groom their kids.
[dead]
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by dang on Friday February 03, 2023 @03:07AM (#34638531)
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email [email protected] and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by dang on Friday February 03, 2023 @03:07AM (#34638529)
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email [email protected] and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by blackflame7000 on Friday February 03, 2023 @02:58PM (#34646923)
Seriously, you’ve banned this account? This is been shown in news articles to have happened. Are you seriously supporting pedophilia right now Dang?
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by PuppyTailWags on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:59AM (#34613452)
I mean I'm talking about current laws on proposal to ban people from dressing differently without saying "only drag queens". The letter of the law bans butch lesbians and tomboys. These are adults.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by howinteresting on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:54AM (#34613352)
Why the scare quotes? Be specific.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by lezojeda on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @11:59AM (#34613450)
>There’s routine cases of institutional actors like teachers and their unions trying to groom kids into being “trans”, without talking to the parents.

Can you cite more than one example when and where this has happened?

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by throwawayacc6 on Saturday February 04, 2023 @01:36PM (#34656804)
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by dogleash on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:01PM (#34613522)
Legal status is terrible standard for whether something is counter culture. Outlawing something is neither necessary nor sufficient to be counterculture. Some legal and cultural boundaries overlap, some are orthogonal.

There are a great many subcultures that would like legal boundaries shifted, and when they care enough they become interest groups participating in the democratic process.

Even the blandest bland blandy that ever blanded is not going to agree with all the laws and societal boundaries being set exactly the way they are. Either that means there's no such thing as a mainstream culture, or we have to understand noisy clashes between subcultures don't make one or the other a counter culture.

I think the way we're discussing that something obviously SUBculture is being confused for a COUNTERculture is an argument in OPs favor that we don't have much (highly visible) counterculture right now.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by PuppyTailWags on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:44PM (#34614375)
Subculture vs counterculture makes sense. I'd be curious what counterculture is and how it differentiates from subculture then, if we're not going to measure if institutions exist that are actively trying to outlaw a culture.
Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by moistly on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @09:22PM (#34621228)
A subculture is generally hidden from the mainstream culture. Few are those who display their BDSM subculture in obvious public fashion.

A counterculture is in the face of the mainstream culture, trying to change the cult. It is countering the mainstream. It is activist or, at the least, unabashed with the intention of normalization.

Re:Do We Live in a Society Without a Counterculture? by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday February 01, 2023 @12:51PM (#34614505)
To expand on this, in a democracy-ish country law pretty much ALWAYS lags the cultural reality because legislatures basically never speculatively do things when it comes to cultural issues, they wait for enough people to want something for it to be an issue worth of the political platform. You might get some extremists pushing the envelope by catering to an extreme minority but even then they won't really be far out in front of the pack.