They are values which promote the functioning of a healthy and balanced society with people less inclined and/or enthusiastically supported for being inherently self-centered and self-destructive. Endless drug epidemics are a very prominent and visual symptom of the damage rampant degeneracy has inflicted upon society and that in general, things as they are currently are NOT alright.

So do you believe gay people for example, are a threat to a healthy and balanced society?

edit:

Oh and conservative culture in my land means mostly lots of alcohol. The first time I vomitted from alcohol was as a teenager on a catholic wine fest, by wine gifted to us from the church. There might be conservatives, that are free from drugs, but mostly they just like other drugs. Drugs are a big problem in todays society, but conservatives as a whole are not a prime example if living sober. Puritans might be, but they are a subclass of "conservatives".

I think a lot of anti-gay thoughts today are more anti gay culture, such as many of the things people do and display in the pride parade that has nothing to do with liking people of the same sex.

So... by that argument isn't "gay culture" actually counter-cultural? As in it goes against the mainstream opinions held by a fairly conservative society?

Oh, that makes sense. I have other gay friends that express the same concern privately. In my country (no gay rights yet; it just got decriminalised) I tend to say that "the best gay pride protest is no gay pride protest", because if we have equal rights, there's no need to protest, and we just want equal rights.

Well, it's a simple equation from a societal health perspective.

As things are currently, society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact). So from that perspective, promotion of homosexuality runs directly counter to what is best for society as a whole versus what is currently seen as best for any one individual.

> society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact).

   The global human population reached 8.0 billion in mid-November 2022 from an estimated 2.5 billion people in 1950,

Your opinion and the actual growth rates do not seem to be in agreement.

> Your opinion and the actual growth rates do not seem to be in agreement.

Believe me or not, it makes no difference to me. I know I'm right.

Even the resident HN golden boy Elon Musk has been very outspoken recently about his significant concerns regarding the forthcoming population collapse. So it's happening whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Human society survived just fine with one quarter the current population 70 years ago. Why can't it survive with that again? Especially now that we have better technology that makes each human much more productive? Unless you can only look at the world through the lens of capitalism (which requires infinite growth)... but capitalism is definitely not required for humanity in general (human society existed before capitalism and will continue to exist after it).

It is a bit telling, that you perceive it as "promoting of homosexuality". I am not gay and I don't see anything like it. What I see, is promoting of a idea, that people are free to live their (consented) sexuality, whatever that might be, instead of forcing them to live an unhappy life not fitting to them. That is not really good, if you want stable people. And without stable people you won't have a stable society.

And about birth rates in general, that is a way longer debate. I would start with world population and limited ressources, but rather leave it at that.

This argument is contingent on things actually getting worse, whereas most social indicators like crime rates or life expectancy seem to indicate that things have improved over the last half century. I would not want to go back to the society of the 1980s, for example, because I'd be more likely to be robbed.

Also, what about the role that greed has played in the latest drug epidemic? The Sacklers were not driven by degeneracy but by the lust for money.

Stop gay people from being treated as beneath the "normal" people.

Of course, this is "real" traditional values; not surface-value "traditional values" co-opted by people: who aren't in-tune with their emotions; people with a void a that needs filling; people who need to feel better about themselves; those who would use it as a banner to gain more power for themselves; and true believers without an ounce of introspection.

With the looming bans and restrictions on social media, and the current atomization of social interactions: it's possible we're beginning a period of great isolation, where man will finally have to deal with sitting in a room all by himself.

Maybe this will spur some self-reflection in a few, leading to a resurgence in deep traditional values and beliefs; rather than the shallow, surface-level stuff, such as the nuclear family or some made-up duty to one's abstract family or some frothingly and puritanically mad ideas about sex.