> Nowadays it's just a few people who ignore the rules, without consequences.
For now. In a while the last holdouts will be confronted by people around them and staff alike as the public opinion shifts. People who are strongly affected by cigarette smoke (asthmatics, COPD sufferers) will slowly come to expect that those areas are really smoke free too, and are places they can actually go without having to take medication directly after. The affront of someone smoking where they shouldn't is gradually felt more acutely.
Some places try implement an X meters from entrances rule, but its a waste of time.
I believe NYC has similar bylaws.
But yes in many places, outdoor and terraces/patios are still a health hazard.
Bars without a smoking area simply don't survive - nobody goes to them.
As a rational individual (or as my couple of friends with a new born), if I want to avoid exposing myself or infants to known carcinogens, I have to never ever eat on a patio/terrace because it’s been co-opted for smoking, but also not indoors because the smoke generally gets in through the windows and entrances (as the waiters move a lot of air by going to and from the kitchen hundreds of time a service)
If the terrace is clearly marked as a smoking area, complaining about people smoking in the smoking area is irrational behavior.
As for bringing infants to bars... Well. Restaurants is one thing, but bringing infants (or any children) to bars is just antisocial behavior.
Where I live its not permitted for minors to be in the bar after 9pm, but many people think it should be much, much earlier cutoff time.
Now what's funny is, this actually was briefly a solved problem, but anti smoking people went and ruined it for everyone in some countries.
The solution was entirely sealed off smoking rooms with ventilation that ensured smoke didn't "leak" from the smoking room.
Anti smoking campaigners made it so smoking areas had to be in the open air to some extent, entirely prohibiting indoor smoking rooms.
Hence: the patio/terrace is now the smoking area, instead of sectioning off of an area indoors and fitting of a ventilation.
Annexing patios and terraces for smokers use very much impacts non smokers. And it’s not like I can sidestep the problem because maybe I would also like to enjoy a meal or drink outdoors without smoking, and if I don’t I still have to walk through a toxic cloud to get into the venue. Never mind being pretty much in the smoking section if the only spot left is near the door or window.
People who smoke bother those who don’t much more than the other way around. It takes one smoker to ruin the air and make it toxic in a 15–30m radius for everyone else.
This isn’t “my” problem. Im not being facetious or picky. Posting an area as smoking doesn’t absolve anyone of the consequences or burden on others. Cigarette smoke stinks (even most smokers agree), is known to be a potent carcinogen, and no one should be forced to inhale secondhand smoke whenever a smoker feels like indulging (and harming themselves but at least it’s their prerogative and mostly their problem except for the huge societal financial burden to treat them afterwards)
Also, this might sound weird in puritanical US but there really isn’t anything sordid about bars or restaurants in Europe. Some bars are more geared towards adults but most places are a mix of families and adults, taking your children with you to these venues doesn’t make you a bad parent and happens often.
An enclosed, ventilated space is mostly prohibited due to the law being an ass.
> it’s their prerogative and mostly their problem except for the huge societal financial burden to treat them afterwards
In the UK at least, smokers tend to pay in more as tax on their cigarette habit than they cost the state in pensions and healthcare, thanks to dying early. They literally are the opposite of a burden.
Regarding children in bars: I'm European myself, and the social acceptability of having your child in a bar has been waning for quite some time.
In the bus stops nobody cares. In general, smokers aren't the most empathetic kind of people.
This already happens to the extent that it is enforceable.
If a venue allow smoking inside where not permitted, or in an area deemed 'inside' (too sheltered, whatever), the venue gets fined or can have its licence suspended or even fully withdrawn.
The law also makes some provision for common sense.
The venues ability to control smoking ends at the boundary (the door). So the venue isn't responsible if someone smokes outside the door on the footpath - its not their problem.
Designating the outdoor areas as smoking areas is an acceptable compromise. Venues lacking in smoking areas tend to be unviable financially.
This is true in most of Europe to varying degrees. You often see people standing just inside of a doorway, with one hand technically "outside" while they are smoking. Or quickly inhaling a cigarette as a bus/train approaches, and then exhaling it on the bus/train.
It’s routine to see someone hold an infant or child in one hand and a smoke in the other.
It’s technically forbidden to smoke in train stations but there is no enforcement and people will smoke everywhere anyway. Same thing for underground parkings. The “rule” seems to be that if you can somehow see the outside and it’s not separated by a door/window, then you’re “outside” and can smoke…
Terrasses in bars and restaurants are basically a giant smoke cloud as the smoke gets trapped under the umbrellas/awnings for everyone (children included) to enjoy.
Smoking right in front of entrances and windows is a national sport.
Advertisement for tobacco and vapes is allowed and ubiquitous.
So many people are smokers in CH (all ages), it’s impossible to go out without coming back reeking of cold smoke.
You can’t really enjoy a balcony or open window because everyone else around smokes and it’ll get into your living quarters.
This was such a major disappointment. I imagined Switzerland having clean air and low pollution… well, far from it. I don’t smoke and I’ve never smoked as much through other peoples second hand smoke as here. Ditto car exhaust.