Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by jojobas on Sunday January 22, 2023 @09:24PM
(#34484721)
There's nothing wrong with internal combustion per se, if electrolysis+ICE works out cheaper than battery in terms of lithium/rare earths/whatever there is no fundamental objection to it.
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Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by XorNot on Sunday January 22, 2023 @09:41PM
(#34484822)
That seems completely implausible though based on the losses. An ICE tops out at 25% efficient or so. A hydrogen fuel cell is 40-60% and efficient and that's likely to rise. If you're bothering with fueling cars with hydrogen gas, you might as well make them electric and get a huge range boost for free (and way more torque, less maintenance etc.)
There's just no logical reason to try and burn hydrogen in ICE engines.
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by shagie on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:28PM
(#34485135)
> There's just no logical reason to try and burn hydrogen in ICE engines.
In commenting in another spot - https://youtu.be/AouW9_jyZck goes through many of the engineering and practicality reasons behind that.
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by tshaddox on Sunday January 22, 2023 @09:54PM
(#34484910)
Wouldn’t ICEs be worse for local pollution?
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by ryao on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:05PM
(#34484996)
There is a hypothetical internal combustion engine that burns hydrogen directly. I think that the other poster was talking about that. Unfortunately, it is not just inefficient, but also has a major rust problem. It also would still generate NOx.
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by gruez on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:05PM
(#34484997)
What pollution would hydrogen/oxygen combustion produce?
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by stephen_g on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:39AM
(#34485870)
NOx is formed from combustion in air, from the nitrogen that makes up much of the air. If you could feed it pure oxygen then you'd avoid that but nobody's going to want a car with an oxidiser tank onboard.
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by scottLobster on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:53AM
(#34485944)
The fundamental objection is quite real: Distribution. Hydrogen, due to the small size of the atoms, requires perfect seals and even then can slowly penetrate even metal containers. Cooling it enough to liquify it requires extreme temperatures and pressures as to destroy any efficiency gains.
Someone has to build that infrastructure, and do it on a national scale, for hydrogen to have even a chance at beating EVs/Hybrid/Gasoline cars. Say what you will about EVs, at least we already have an electric grid.
Re:'A complete failure' Japan's 'fantasy' hydrogen strategy ...
by xxs on Monday January 23, 2023 @02:43AM
(#34486440)
Worse, hydrogen permeates most metals and embrittles[0] them, too.
Synthetic methane produced by electricity is likely still superior to hydrogen with both suffering terrible inefficiencies, at least methane is easy to transport.