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Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Sunday January 22, 2023 @11:50AM (#34479263)
> not bother to find some other ways to make money.

Oh, they definitely tried, and still try. The problem is the same as many large companies: they want a new trick as lucrative as the old trick, and there aren't any.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @12:35PM (#34479903)
did they try though? it seemed all scattershot, unfocussed, repetitive (how many chat/video apps) and quickly taken out back and shot.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Sunday January 22, 2023 @12:41PM (#34479971)
it's not ALL scattershot. GMail and Docs for enterprises are a pretty sustained effort. Cloud is pretty sustained. YouTube is unkillable.

But in general you're right.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @01:37PM (#34480646)
GSuite is either underpriced or underfeatured.

Most real enterprise still happens on Office, and lots of consumers happy give Apple $100/year for iCloud.

Cloud services - aren't they basically 3rd behind AMZN/MSFT now, by A LOT? They are basically competing for 3rd against IBM/Oracle/etc, and some quarters they are #4.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:05PM (#34481661)
No arguments there. They're still trying; just not hard enough.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:41PM (#34482001)
I mean, once you are past the free tier.. GSuite is close to the monthly cost of Office365, and Google sheets is not even close to Excel. You can basically program mini applications in Excel vs a basic spreadsheet app for medium sized spreadsheets that multiple people can edit in their browser with version tracking.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Sunday January 22, 2023 @04:36PM (#34482486)
I have Excel, and of course Sheets. I actually find Excel to be too full of features (same with Word). It's just too hard to figure out a simple thing like having the top row be column headings (yes, I do know how to do it, but it was not immediately apparent).

"Someone, somewhere, might want to do this, so let's put it in" is obviously what's happened with Office for 30 years now.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by WalterBright on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:58PM (#34484144)
Excel is the #1 programming language by a wide margin, and it evolved rather than was designed.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by ipaddr on Sunday January 22, 2023 @11:22PM (#34485431)
I remember when all reports were crystal reports which you don't see as much anymore? Excel is on the way out.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:19AM (#34485774)
Exactly. Every release some PM or senior engineers wants to add some features, for no doubt good reasons, and it all gets shoehorned into the UI. Thus the rule I generally espouse, of

"Simple things should be simple. Complicated things should be possible."

turns into

"Everything is possible, but nothing is simple."

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by graycat on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:01PM (#34484162)
My summary view of much of Microsoft, and more of tech, is that, while a lot of the software is really good, too often the corresponging explanations and documentation are not.

There seems to be a theme that the user should learn to use the software via experimentation. To me, that too often results in too much clicking, and when finally I do see I take notes, i.e., document some of the software.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by osullip on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:21PM (#34483891)
I keep pulling data into Google sheets because of this >=REGEXEXTRACT("My favorite number is 241, but my friend's is 17", "\d+")
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by formercoder on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:03AM (#34485685)
I just wrote a quick regex vba function when I was last in a job on Office.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by shapefrog on Monday January 23, 2023 @04:59AM (#34487104)
They're still trying; really really hard. But they are just not good enough.

Maybe like Zuck they are / were a one trick pony. Perhaps becoming a multi billionaire is not proof that you can invent and monetize something anytime anywhere in any industry on demand.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Monday January 23, 2023 @08:50AM (#34488665)
I think in some ways its the scale of the problems Google X / Other Bets / Alphabet went after being rather hyperbolic.

Apple / Microsoft just take what they are good at to move into adjacent spaces in consumer/office tech. Apple has made some failed forays into corporate while Microsoft has not done terrible well in consumer other than gaming and maintaining their existing Windows base.

I wonder if Apple leaks about stupid stuff we never see like their car and their AR is just to put other less well disciplined firms onto the trail of expensive dead ends.

If you think of automakers and their "concept car" approach in which they present beautiful improbable vehicles they never ship.. Apple seems to LEAK "concept cars" they never ever preview, while Google goes all-in trying to actually ship a "concept car" no one wants, like Google glass.

Apple is the result of judicious application of the word "no". Google looks like a lot of "yes" with weak knees that quickly turn into "no".

I still don't understand what Google's strategy is in almost any space - messaging, social, home automation, audio, AR/VR, other than "yes... actually, no".

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:30PM (#34491995)
A good analysis of Apple: capture the news cycle with your whiz bang thingie, and then forget about it.

> I still don't understand what Google's strategy is in almost any space

Not just you. The "strategy" is "ambitious product manager creates a new 'vision', sells it, gets promoted, then quickly moves on to something else."

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Monday January 23, 2023 @01:33PM (#34492960)
> A good analysis of Apple: capture the news cycle with your whiz bang thingie, and then forget about it.

I kind of don't agree there. Apple really only officially announces, demos and talks about products they have to sell you right now.

About the only vaporware I can remember from them in the last decade was that stupid dual charging puck thing they just quietly walked back from.

The only released & quietly abandoned product in recent memory would be the iPod Hi-Fi dock boombox thing.

So when Apple announces something I'm 99% confident it will make it will be released within days/weeks. And when it is released, I'm 95% confident the product line will exist in 5 years.

Google, for me, those numbers are like 70% & 20%. Which is why I rarely waste my time to look at anything new from them. Odds are its either not something I need, or if I need it.. won't be long for this world, so why bother.

I think they clearly feed rumors to journalists about stuff that is further back in the development pipeline, to the point that the conspirational minded might think its to throw off competitor from the right course..

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by aantix on Sunday January 22, 2023 @03:24PM (#34481834)
Their api offerings are a hot mess to setup.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by petre on Sunday January 22, 2023 @04:34PM (#34482474)
iCloud is funny because it's just storage and an e-mail address compared to GSuite which can be actually used to do a bunch of hobby level stuff.

ChatGPT/AI is overhyped, just like full self driving was five years ago. It can do stuff, write articles, code etc. until people realize that what it spits out is useful stuff mixed with made up gibberish.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @04:45PM (#34482562)
iCloud is an example of what happens when you actually try to sell a product.

Obviously GSuite does far more than iCloud, and yet..

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by imbnwa on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:42PM (#34484042)
Does GSuite have Hide My Email?
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by WalterBright on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:00PM (#34484158)
ChatGPT generated code has the interesting property of looking like it should work, but is subtly completely wrong.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:26PM (#34484323)
Yes, its funny when people post what is obviously cherry picked examples of it working.

So far the code I've seen is the same level of word salad as its text writing. I gave it some really easy ones that it responded back with 1-liners that would produce runtime errors, let alone actually produce correct result. I find it interesting since its really just synethesizing new content from existing content it has trained on, yet it produced simple one-liners that were wrong.

Lorem ipsum.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by vintermann on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:56AM (#34489475)
YouTube may be unkillable, but how much money do they make? Especially, what does the RoI look like compared to Twitch and TikTok?
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:47PM (#34492258)
I don't know, but it does seem like they've reached Peak Ad. The Rick Beato videos get interrupted at least four times with ads.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by badwolf on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:49PM (#34484094)
Having run "startup within the enterprise" business units ... this is such a frustrating thing, trying something new and different, but it doesn't become massively profitable in under a year, so the owner/founder shuts the project down. Not remembering it took the main business unit over a decade to get where they are :-/
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by WalterBright on Sunday January 22, 2023 @07:55PM (#34484131)
I never quite understood this. New tricks only have to have ROI better than 14% or so to be worthwhile.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by lumost on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:17PM (#34484267)
It’s tricky - companies with high margin businesses are loath to scale into low margin businesses. It makes the firm look more like a commodity than it is. Meanwhile startups in large enterprises are often desperate to grow revenue to show relevance.. leading to low margins.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by steveBK123 on Sunday January 22, 2023 @08:37PM (#34484397)
It just seems like they wasted their lead, margin and talent.

Bell Labs produced a lot of interesting stuff with their monopoly profits. Apple R&D seems to come up with lots of interesting new product lines.

GOOG bought Nest and managed to become an also-ran in home automation.

GOOG other bets might produce something with Waymo, but when.. all this autonomous car stuff is continuously 5 more years, every year. That's about the closest they've come so far, no?

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:10AM (#34485734)
Just give it time, Steve. 5 more years should be about right :)
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by danielmarkbruce on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:20PM (#34485090)
This isn't right. In the real world every effort saps a little bandwidth from the CEO/top execs, potentially harms the brand, potentially causes the org to calcify. Better off handing the money back.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by WalterBright on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:24PM (#34485113)
One solution with that is to spin off a company that does these things, while keeping majority ownership.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by danielmarkbruce on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:36PM (#34485181)
It's probably better, but I'd just as soon take the money back as a shareholder.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by WalterBright on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:42PM (#34485219)
Most shareholders would be happy if they could average a 14% return.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by danielmarkbruce on Monday January 23, 2023 @02:01AM (#34486266)
Yeah I'm saying that what appears to be a 14% return won't be, and/or creates risks. Putting small amounts of capital to work to earn 14% is a distraction for Google. The distraction has the potential to cost 100's of billions.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by pooper on Monday January 23, 2023 @03:21AM (#34486633)
> The distraction has the potential to cost 100's of billions.

Not doing this has the potential for Google to miss the next technology trend, potentially crashing Google completely.

That being said, I completely agree with you on a different note. "Professional" spectator sports in schools and higher education. In my opinion, it should be completely banned. Every single such initiative distracts from a school's or university's core mission. It does not matter if each dollar they spent on it makes back ninety cents or two dollars. It is still a distraction that everyone has to do because everyone else is doing it.

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by AlbertCory on Monday January 23, 2023 @12:03AM (#34485687)
My friend Jerry and I explored this topic in detail using Xerox PARC as an example [1]

I think Walter is right that spin-off is the right strategy, and (not very well known) Xerox actually did do that with a lot of PARC innovations. Just not with computers.

[1] https://www.albertcory.io/lets-do-have-hindsight

Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by danielmarkbruce on Sunday January 22, 2023 @10:19PM (#34485086)
Further to this - they not only want it, but they kind of need it if it's to move the needle. It's a difficult situation. A nice problem to have for sure, but still difficult.
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by didntreadarticl on Monday January 23, 2023 @04:46AM (#34487054)
Makes me realise Microsoft are actually the most diversified of the big players now
Re:Google is freaking out about ChatGPT by zeruch on Monday January 23, 2023 @03:23PM (#34494462)
They don't nurture any new tricks long enough to actually prove it out. Their product graveyard is like the SV equivalent to the city of Colma. From Wikipedia: "With most of Colma's land dedicated to cemeteries, the population of the dead—not specifically known but speculated to be around 1.5 million—outnumbers that of the living by a ratio of nearly a thousand to one. This has led to Colma being called "the City of the Silent" and has given rise to a humorous motto, formerly featured on the city's website: "It's great to be alive in Colma""