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Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by labrador on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:19PM (#34448410)
I switched political parties and became a Democrat after watching The Grapes of Wrath. I realized I was on the wrong side.

I asked ChatGPT a question

Q: Why was The Grapes of Wrath banned in some parts of America?

A: The Grapes of Wrath, a novel by John Steinbeck, was banned in some parts of America due to its depiction of the struggles of migrant workers during the Great Depression and its criticism of capitalist society. Some people found the book to be controversial and offensive, and some even accused Steinbeck of being a communist. Additionally, the book was banned in some areas because it was believed to be obscene or inappropriate for certain readers.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by elecush on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:42PM (#34448549)
What was your political stance prior to watching The Grapes of Wrath? You say you "switched sides" but it's unclear to me what shifted in your stance before and after.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by labrador on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:41PM (#34448939)
I was in the military during the Reagan era and was a Republican. I coasted on that for awhile and then watched the film adaptation of TGOW and noticed the government run by the Democrats was trying to help poor people at the time, while Republicans were trying to run them out of town if they couldn't exploit their labor. This was the film depiction. I don't vouch for it's voracity. I'm not a historian.

What I did do what take a look around in the 90's and notice Democrats were trying to help poor people while Republicans were trying to cut social security and school lunches for poor kids. That's when I became a Democrat.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by theGnuMe on Friday January 20, 2023 @05:55AM (#34451348)
Amen brother.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by sesuximo on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:37PM (#34448516)
I distinctly remember reading this book in high school and being shocked at the end. In retrospect I guess that’s a sign it was a good book.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by jacurtis on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:15PM (#34448755)
I was too. Of all the books I read in high school, none affected me anywhere close to Grapes of Wrath. The book is very mature, and I think it is often given to students too early in life before they can truly appreciate it. But this book should be required reading for Seniors in high school before they go out into the real world.

John Steinbeck also wrote "East of Eden" which I would say was even more impactful of my life, but I didn't read it until my mid-twenties. That book really explores good and evil. It is slightly critical of religion (specifically Christianity), which is why it isn't read in school. But the principles and themes of the book dig really deep into human morals and how we choose our personal values. I really love it.

Lastly, Travels with Charley is a fun view of Americana. It was written much later in Steinbeck's life and is a much easier and lighter read. But its very fun and I recommend it to everyone. It is a personal story of Steinbeck traveling across America in his old age with his dog named Charley. Its fun.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by WalterBright on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:20PM (#34448791)
> this book should be required reading for Seniors in high school before they go out into the real world

Maybe read an actual history book about the Depression, instead of a novel.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by monero-xmr on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:39PM (#34448528)
I switched to being libertarian after I worked for the government
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by elecush on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:42PM (#34448552)
Did you move to Monero after working at the Federal Reserve?
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by p1necone on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:49PM (#34448600)
Try working for any large organization public or private. There's not much difference.

"The Government" is effectively equivalent to hundreds of separately run companies as well, some of them are bureaucratic/ineffective nightmares.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by karaokeyoga on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:51PM (#34448617)
Layoffs are one difference.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Turing_Machine on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:56PM (#34448645)
Another difference is that you can, in general, refuse to deal with a particular company.

You can't refuse to deal with the government.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by themitigating on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:16PM (#34448768)
You can leave the country
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Turing_Machine on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:43PM (#34448963)
All countries have governments.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by p1necone on Thursday January 19, 2023 @11:21PM (#34449225)
Have you considered there might be a reason for that? That kind of "100% personal freedom, no government telling me what to do" libertarianism is impossible nonsense.

It would exist for about three seconds before people realized that there's a hell of a lot of stuff that works much more smoothly/is only possible at all if a bunch of people pool resources together and delegate responsibility to one person or a group of people to manage it. And then bam! you've got a government.

When people say they're libertarians I usually give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that what they mean is "I think the government should be smaller than it is today" and not "I think the government should not exist".

If you really want to exist without being beholden to the government there's plenty of places you could build an isolated cabin in the woods, collect rainwater, grow your own food etc. Or move to some kind of commune.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by reducesuffering on Friday January 20, 2023 @03:04AM (#34450320)
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Turing_Machine on Friday January 20, 2023 @08:24AM (#34452782)
> Have you considered there might be a reason for that? That kind of "100% personal freedom, no government telling me what to do" libertarianism is impossible nonsense.

That's not actually refuting my original point, which was that it's a lot easier to stop dealing with McDonald's than it is to stop dealing with the government.

You're trying to shift the goalposts.

> If you really want to exist without being beholden to the government there's plenty of places you could build an isolated cabin in the woods, collect rainwater, grow your own food etc.

And if I want to exist without being beholden to McDonald's I can just, you know, stop going to McDonald's.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by themitigating on Friday January 20, 2023 @02:52AM (#34450253)
Is your issue with how a government is run or the existence of government?
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Turing_Machine on Friday January 20, 2023 @08:28AM (#34452826)
My issue is that it's ridiculous to even compare the relative level of difficulty between not dealing with a private company and not dealing with the government.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by jeffbee on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:59PM (#34448666)
In America you can pick and choose your favorite government, all up and down the system, except for the federal one. We enjoy substantial choice in the matter.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Turing_Machine on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:41PM (#34448934)
> In America you can pick and choose your favorite government

Sorry, that is not true. You get the government that 50% + 1 vote wants, and you get absolutely no choice about whether you deal with it, which sucks if you're a member of the 50% - 1 vote group.

If I refuse to deal with Amazon, or Apple, or McDonalds, nothing happens (except I don't get to eat Big Macs).

If I refuse to deal with my government, they will send people with guns to put me in jail.

The situations aren't even remotely comparable.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by anonymouskimmer on Thursday January 19, 2023 @11:20PM (#34449219)
> "You get the government that 50% + 1 vote wants"

If you're lucky you get that. Usually you get what a majority of voters in a majority of districts want, which may very well be a superminority of total voters.

> "If I refuse to deal with my government, they will send people with guns to put me in jail."

If you fully drop out and become a wandering homeless person inside of a very, very large forest you can probably avoid dealing with the government. If they send people with guns after you you obviously aren't trying hard enough.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Turing_Machine on Friday January 20, 2023 @08:26AM (#34452807)
> If you fully drop out and become a wandering homeless person inside of a very, very large forest you can probably avoid dealing with the government.

Until some ranger in a plane sees the smoke from your campfire and lands to give you a whopping fine.

But that's not actually the point. Once again, if I want to stop dealing with McDonald's I can just do it, with next to zero effect on the rest of my life.

Are you really suggesting that abandoning your entire life to live in the wilderness is somehow just as easy?

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by anonymouskimmer on Friday January 20, 2023 @01:05PM (#34457101)
No, it's not easy.

But for the large companies it's not easy to stop dealing with them either. Unless you're in IT or programming it's basically impossible to boycott both Microsoft and Apple if you happen to have problems with both of them. Even if you're running Linux or BSD in your personal life you have to deal with one or the other at work.

Good luck boycotting your local grocery store, especially if restrictive covenants or local monopolies mean the alternatives are non-existent or owned by the same parent corporation.

When it comes to the government, as long as you avoid annoying your neighbors, obey traffic laws, and pay taxes, you can spend huge stretches of your life not interacting with it. Heck, if you're a W-2 employee and your workplace takes out enough money from your paycheck you can skip even filing taxes. No one will come after you.

In the US governments pretty much leave you alone as long as you obey a minimal set of rules and don't cause problems with your neighbors.

> "If I refuse to deal with my government, they will send people with guns to put me in jail."

Yes, in some cases sure. But no, typically they won't. Because typically they have no reason to deal with you.

Just like in some cases citizens will get significantly hassled by private companies. Today those private companies typically use the government (through lawsuits and the like) to hassle citizens, but it's the private company that's the initiator. And if you refuse to deal with them they'll mess with your life in ways more Kafkaesque than simply sending people with guns to put you in jail.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by briHass on Thursday January 19, 2023 @11:46PM (#34449361)
Unfortunately, that's a big caveat. If only the US worked as it was originally intended: States hold most of the power, the Federal government only controls some very specific and limited aspects. Most people couldn't even name 2 representatives in Congress from their state, let alone members of the state legislature. But, boy oh boy, do they know and care about the POTUS' every move.

I fail to see how everyone, regardless of their 'side', wouldn't be better off by shrinking the size of the Fed gov by half and reallocating at least that much in total taxes paid to the State instead.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by WalterBright on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:52PM (#34448622)
My dad switched from being a socialist to a libertarian after a career living and working on military bases (a completely centrally planned community). One of the funnier stories he had was when the base commander tired of all the complaints about the dilapidated furniture in the base housing.

He got rid of it all. He put his wife in charge of selecting the replacement furniture. His wife's taste was impeccable, and the soldiers' wives would appreciate her efforts to bestow good taste on the minions.

The wives didn't just dislike the furniture, they hated it with all their might. (The men, naturally, couldn't care less about the furniture.)

My dad would laugh and laugh every time he recounted the story.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by anonymouskimmer on Thursday January 19, 2023 @11:13PM (#34449169)
I switched to the green party after having a permatemp job as a "Kelly Girl®".

Central planning sucks whether it's left or right.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by WalterBright on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:47PM (#34448585)
My father grew up in the Great Depression in Los Angeles. He went to school with many Okies.

Be careful about confusing a novel with history.

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by wrp on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:00PM (#34448675)
Steinbeck was the first serious novelist I got into as a kid, even read his collected letters, so I have a soft spot for him. It really shook my perception of his "journalistic" approach when I learned that Travels with Charley was almost entirely made up. Makes me wonder how much literary license he used in other books like A Russian Journal.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by savryn on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:13PM (#34448739)
another person who read the letters!

I'm shocked at how high quality the correspondence was, makes friendships of today feel kinda cheap

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by Bloating on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:52PM (#34448623)
I switch parties all the time. Whats the big deal?
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by refurb on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:02PM (#34448683)
Oh god, I really hope we're not using Chat GPT as a source now.
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by jacurtis on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:07PM (#34448710)
Im not even sure what value the Chat GPT response provides in this story.

So they watched the movie (not reading the book) and changed political parties. Why? No real reason was given. Then they plop a Chat GPT response in there and that's it. So what is it? They are just living their life as Chat GPT directs them? ChatGPT is a month or so old, so did this all happen a month ago?

Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by labrador on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:34PM (#34448880)
ChatGPT has enslaved me
Re:The Grapes of Wrath was banned in the USSR because showed... by UncleOxidant on Thursday January 19, 2023 @10:13PM (#34448735)
Welcome to the future.