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Re: by lelanthran on Friday January 13, 2023 @11:27PM (#34377394)
> Sorry, but anybody who thinks Agile is about velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc. has been sold a bill of goods. Now that's not to say that those things don't have (some) value.

Spot on. You and parent have hit the two points that matter:

1. Agile is about removing impediments to productivity

2. velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc are all, in some way, impediments to productivity (even if they do have some value).

I think the real reason you cannot have real agile is because businesses don't run in a way that is compatible with agile, so over time all processes within a business will evolve to match how the business itself functions.

Re: by garethrowlands on Saturday January 14, 2023 @09:48AM (#34380694)
Strong agree.

Except it's not even really about productivity, it's about outcomes. The productivity is only important insofar as it achieves the outcomes. The ideal agile process would have the team on the golf course or in the spa but still changing the world (any suggestions on achieving this, gratefully accepted, as always).

Re: by mindcrime on Saturday January 14, 2023 @10:36AM (#34381073)
I think the real reason you cannot have real agile is because businesses don't run in a way that is compatible with agile, so over time all processes within a business will evolve to match how the business itself functions.

Sadly, I think you are correct. It's very hard, at best, to make "the business" operate in a way that's truly compatible with the agile approach on the tech side. :-(

I won't say it's impossible, but it's definitely not easy.

Re: by t43562 on Saturday January 14, 2023 @12:33PM (#34382033)
Yes, the business leadership almost always put an impossible waterfall approach ontop - they don't adapt to change at all well and are not really leading.

For me the value in Agile is what we end up NOT doing - we never get to that shit because in the end it's not that important. So we never waste time doing it.

Re: by jimbomins on Monday January 16, 2023 @10:37AM (#34401653)
"removing impediments" - just sounds like good managers in any process. Bad managers often are an impediment.