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Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by Animats on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @02:14PM (#34343072)
> Even after the replacement was complete the electrician had to come back and redo the wiring connections because the inspector said the PVC joint at the top of the box had to be metal instead.

Right. There must be a reliable metallic path to ground.

This is a big problem with PVC pipe retrofits. In older houses, plumbing and conduit are metal and good grounds, and grounding to plumbing used to be permitted. Once PVC pipe came in, you have to assume that no pipe is grounded, and you need extra ground wires and stakes. This can happen due to a plumbing repair. Otherwise, a short to "ground" can energize the structure's entire water system.

In the original article, if your house doesn't have three-prong outlets, it's time for an full upgrade. You're at least half a century behind.

As for training new electricians, "In the past, Reyes recruited workers out of high school and trained them. But he’s reluctant to do it again. It costs his technicians time, it costs him money, and there’s no guarantee that the people he invests in will stick around because the job market is so competitive." Well, welcome to the free market. Maybe you have to pay more.

There are International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers apprenticeship programs not mentioned in the article. Here's Local 6, San Francisco.[1] They require high school graduation, a grade of C or better in algebra and trigonometry, and drug testing to become an apprentice. The apprenticeship is three years.

"Grid Alternatives partners with local organizations, like Homeboy Industries, a gang-intervention program, to introduce former inmates as well as other underrepresented people, to careers in solar. Those admitted to Grid’s training receive “wraparound supportive services” that address barriers they might have to participating, such as helping them get driver’s licenses, open bank accounts, or, for those formerly incarcerated, find attorneys." That may be starting too far down the food chain.

"But this past year, Laney’s program almost fell apart after one of its teachers, Forough Hashemi, announced she would be retiring at the end of the spring 2022 semester. Hashemi had been teaching six classes each semester, essentially holding the program together".

Laney College seems rather disorganized. Their web site says "Fall Classes Start August 24, 2020 – Enroll Now!". If their idea of recruiting is "we sent some letters and nobody responded", that's the college's problem.

[1] https://ibew6.org/

Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by repiret on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @02:38PM (#34343422)
> ... and grounding to plumbing used to be permitted

Do you have a citation for this?

I was under the impression that using plumbing as equipment ground was never allowed, but that conductive plumbing has required to be bonded to ground for some time. I was further under the impression that by code, plumbing repairs couldn't leave behind unbonded sections of conductive plumbing.

Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by mcbishop on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @03:09PM (#34343903)
I assisted with a few residential electrical-service upgrades last year (in California). ...If the plumbing pipe could be used as one of two paths to ground (i.e. conductive all the way), it was. Otherwise two grounding stakes were installed instead of one.

> by code, plumbing repairs couldn't leave behind unbonded sections of conductive plumbing

I assume that's correct, but I think shady / lazy / amateur contractors can assume the inspector won't check work in the crawl space.

Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by Animats on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @08:51PM (#34348001)
Today it's more like you're bonding the plumbing to ground than assuming it is ground. That way, if something shorts to a pipe, you trip a breaker rather than energizing the water system.
Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by Animats on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @04:16PM (#34344991)
> ... and grounding to plumbing used to be permitted > > Do you have a citation for this?

You could look it up yourself. It's not hard.

Here's a guide to the 1981 National Electrical Code. See page 297. section 250-23, grounding for alternating current systems:

"grounding electrode conductor ... which runs to building steel and/or water pipe or driven ground rod".

Page 299, "water pipe and/or other suitable electrode" as grounding point for neutral.

Page 365, section 250-81 goes into water pipes as ground in more detail. It usually can't be the only ground. That's in 250-81(a). But back then, there was an assumption that water pipes were a path to ground.

By 2011, use of a water pipe as ground was more restricted. It's still allowed, but you have to attach directly to the metal pipe where it comes out of the ground. See[2], page 238, section 250-51, "Grounding electrodes". (You're allowed 5 feet of pipe from building entrance). Also see 250-53(D)(2), where the risk of future replacement of a metal water pipe with plastic is discussed. Water pipes are now valid grounds only if they meet the general ground rod criterion - six feet of conductor buried in earth. (3m for pipes.) You can see the general progression from "pipes are grounds" to "only grounding rods driven in the ground can be trusted." Which is reasonable enough, given that most new pipe is plastic. At this point, grounding pipes is more about preventing them from becoming energized if something shorts to a pipe. Just as all electrical boxes must be grounded.

[1] https://archive.org/details/mcgrawhillsnatio00mcpa/page/296/...

[2] https://archive.org/details/nationalelectric0000unse_d8w8/pa...

Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by sbierwagen on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @08:06PM (#34347656)
I was in a McDonalds the other day and an ad for my former local's apprenticeship program played over the radio. So they're still looking for people.

Since they're a union, the pay scale is public: https://ibew46.com/media/6924/020623_020424_residential_area... Apprentices start at $21.30.

That McDonalds had a big "now hiring" sign out front, advertising $21 an hour. Hm. Not sure if the extra thirty cents would be worth tying yourself to construction's boom and bust cycle.

Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by no_wizard on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @09:42PM (#34348476)
I agree on the boom bust cycle, but if you're working the chain, once you become a certified electrician it is totally worth getting additional training on non residential things too. I don't know the lingo, but my general understanding from what my friends who are actually electricians tell me, is once you're licensed, its worth going the extra mile and piling on the extra certifications as insulation against market swings.

So for instance, one of the folks I know can do residential but also spent a year in the midwest learning how to wire up windmills. I guess that paid off in the last cycle when they had to pivot back and forth on jobs.

I just hate physical labor as a job, personally, but he makes almost as good of money as I do now, but my back will last past 50.