We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electrify everything

Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by bityard on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @12:01PM (#34340861)

Let know when GFCIs and AFCIs are robust enough against spurious tripping and I will readily install them everywhere.

GFCIs are notorious for tripping on certain appliances like refrigerators and freezers, and can trip due to RFI from other devices in the house.

AFCIs do not like anything with a brushed motor, especially power tools and sufficiently large vacuums.

I have personally experienced all of these just in the last couple years.

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Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by londons_explore on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @12:15PM (#34341069)

European GFCI's are 30mA, and don't false trip. US GFCI's are 5mA, and frequenty false trip.

lots of info here[1]

TL;DR: The US regulations prevent small electrical faults into things like swimming pools from causing people to drown. The european regulations will stop you getting killed by electricity directly, but won't stop you drowning if you happen to be in a pool while touching some wiring.

[1]: https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/218700/why-are-usa-c...

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Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by Freak_NL on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @04:12PM (#34344921)

This thread is really baffling to this Dutchman. All houses have a house-wide residual-current device here; it is not a topic for debate at all. And indeed, these don't false trip.

US electrical wiring always weirds me out. Cables run through walls without pulling them through hard plastic conduits and sockets that look like something designed seventy years ago. It's probably a matter of perspective, but it seems like such a completely different approach.

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Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by idiotsecant on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @07:36PM (#34347362)

Those hard plastic conduit are not providing much in the way of mechanical protection. wires in studs works pretty well, really.

Whole-house GFCI is a good thing, but we should be careful to consider what you get for that. In order for GFCIs to coordinate the whole-house device is going to trip at a relatively high current. This is definitely on the edge of what will disrupt the heart of a person. American GFCIs are often at the device level on the outlet, so they are more error prone in terms of spurious trips but they are also much, much safer because they are substantially more sensitive.

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Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by anikom15 on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @06:38PM (#34346710)

GFCIs also have a lifespan. Ideally they’ll be easily replaced at the breaker panel, but most of the time they are put on outlets. Those outlets could be in a difficult to reach location. They are about twice the cost of a regular outlet/breaker. AFCIs seem to be about three to four times.

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Re:We need a lot more electricians if we’re going to electri... by idiotsecant on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @07:33PM (#34347329)

If the system voltage is between 150 V and 300 V, then either double insulation or a separate safety ground with the same gauge wire as the hot conductor is required; the purpose of the safety ground is to keep the equipment case or cabinet from reaching 150 V in case of a fault.

In this case a Class C GFCI may be used to provide fibrillation protection, let-go-protection is optional.

A Class C GFCI is 20mA trip current.

This will not spuriously trip your freezer. If you're having issues with this it's because you're designing your power distribution system incorrectly.

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