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Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by causi on Monday January 09, 2023 @12:12AM (#34307021)
Hell If I had my way I'd add a "right to root" in the Constitution itself. You should have control over your hardware, period.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by mindslight on Monday January 09, 2023 @12:40AM (#34307190)
* * *
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by causi on Monday January 09, 2023 @02:56AM (#34307894)
changing the software on hardware you own is not illegal

Not true. The DMCA makes it illegal to "circumvent" DRM schemes. It's also illegal to carrier-unlock your phone without your carrier's permission.

Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by EMIRELADERO on Monday January 09, 2023 @03:57AM (#34308237)
Only if the DRM protects a copyrighted work, and even then only if the "protection" goes beyond protecting the software from being executed/used. (Chamberlain v. Skylink)
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by causi on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:29AM (#34308446)
Root allows the user to bypass DRM such as Widevine.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by zaroth on Monday January 09, 2023 @08:31AM (#34310075)
But then it’s not gaining root which is the problem, it’s (as always) what you proceed to do with it.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by EMIRELADERO on Monday January 09, 2023 @02:13PM (#34314620)
The DMCA doesn't really care about what you do after. The "DRM" has to directly protect a copyrighted work. By your logic, a CFAA violation is also a DMCA violation.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by mindslight on Monday January 09, 2023 @10:06AM (#34311110)
I acknowledged the DMCA. The DMCA and other legal restrictions are indeed problems. Another one is likely emissions requirements, which discourage tractor owners from replacing the computers wholesale.

But even if these legal restrictions were to vanish tomorrow, we'd still be stuck with a similar landscape - most manufacturer control comes from technical restrictions combined with a high rate of churn so even if someone invests the time to figure something out, it quickly becomes yesterday's model. Fundamentally, understanding is more difficult than creation.

The calculus could be different on tractors, which are meant to last a real long time. Except the topic here too is focused on getting companies to positively supply things to help, rather than removing laws that hinder (FTA: "The agreement creates a mechanism to address farmers’ concerns and give them access to resources needed to repair their own equipment, such as diagnostic and repair codes, manuals and product guides.")

So my ultimate point is that you need to move past thinking that a Constitutional "right to repair" law would address these problems. Such a thing would be as ineffectual as the Constitutional "freedom of speech" has been in addressing the social media oligopoly.

Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by alvah on Monday January 09, 2023 @02:05AM (#34307643)
"right to root" does not translate very well here in (nominally-English-speaking) Australia!
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by JTBooth on Monday January 09, 2023 @02:30AM (#34307776)
What's Australian for the most privileged account on a computer? Is there a verb for when you get access to it?
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by alvah on Monday January 09, 2023 @02:48AM (#34307860)
It’s the same verb but it raises a smile every single time. Yes I am a child in an adult’s body.

Slightly OT, they pronounce router “rowter” over here, presumably to avoid the same issue.

Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by aussieshibe on Monday January 09, 2023 @03:49AM (#34308181)
Interestingly this seems to be one of those unusual cases where the US by and large uses the British pronunciation while Australia does its own thing.

On the plus side for Australia, we never have to hear the classic form:

> Rooter? I hardly even know 'er!

Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by causi on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:27AM (#34308437)
Depends on the region. I'm from the US and I've never heard somebody say "rooter"
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by lotsofpulp on Monday January 09, 2023 @05:33AM (#34308842)
Me either. All over the US, I have only ever heard “row-ter”. And my British family says “roo-ter”.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by alvah on Monday January 09, 2023 @08:57AM (#34310338)
Is it Root 66 or Rowt 66 though? Because a rooter is related to roots.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by lotsofpulp on Monday January 09, 2023 @09:47AM (#34310885)
I have heard root and rowt when referring to roads in the US, but I have always used rout, and I think I have heard it more commonly used than root.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by kwhitefoot on Monday January 09, 2023 @07:26AM (#34309563)
A router pronounced 'rowter' is surely a wood working tool.
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by smdyc1 on Monday January 09, 2023 @03:02AM (#34307925)
Haha! My mind immediately went there as well!
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by aussieshibe on Monday January 09, 2023 @03:51AM (#34308200)
Sounds like the tagline of r/aussieincels
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by rkangel on Monday January 09, 2023 @05:55AM (#34308999)
While I philosophically agree, I struggle to reconcile it with some other practicalities. I (mostly) design and build radio systems, and as the manufacturer it is our job to ensure that it is a well behaved radio system - transmits in the frequency bands it's meant to, at the power it's meant to, without leaking and interfering with other things. For a consumer product, where much of the radio implementation is in some form of software, how do I ensure that the system continues to meet the rules?

You could argue that any changes to the software are then the fault of the user, which is a reasonable point of view. But what if someone comes up with a mod that makes your wifi better by breaking transmit power rules (at the expense of others). Lots of people might use it, and then there are resulting widespread interference problems. Difficult to identify culprits, possibly too many to prosecute etc.

Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by causi on Monday January 09, 2023 @07:20AM (#34309520)
But what if someone comes up with a mod that makes your wifi better by breaking transmit power rules (at the expense of others). Lots of people might use it, and then there are resulting widespread interference problems.

This already exists in multiple forms. It's incredibly easy to import adapters and antennas that give you an order of magnitude more power than you're legally allowed to use. I used one of those setups in high school to run uTorrent over the AP of the McDonald's half a mile away.

Regular folks don't care enough to break the rules.

Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by kwhitefoot on Monday January 09, 2023 @07:28AM (#34309578)
It wasn't a big problem in the days before manufacturers had the technical capability to prevent tinkering so why would you expect it to be a big problem now?
Re:Deere to Allow Farmers to Repair Their Own Equipment by rkangel on Monday January 09, 2023 @10:37AM (#34311471)
Because much more is in software than it used to be.

In the past, most of the key aspects of the radio were pretty fixed in the hardware. Whereas now, more and more of the radio is in software (and/or FPGA), or at least configurable from software. Tinkering in that case requires a "per person" level of skill. Whereas tinkering with software requires one person to be able to tinker, and then lots of people can use the result.