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Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by morby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:30AM (#34298543)
Islam isn’t a country. It’s an ideology that can be practiced by anyone.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by qsort on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:33AM (#34298568)
Just one more reason why we shouldn't care. A person's freedom to practice Islam does not imply an obligation from me to give any remote fuck.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by crabkin on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:41AM (#34298610)
Nope no obligation, but just as we say for freedom of speech in some other context, like for instance, say you were to use a pejorative term to a person it may apply to, you may not have the "obligation to give any remote fuck" about how they feel about it, likewise that doesn't prevent you from getting punched in the face or being perceived by others as lacking tact/self-awareness.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by narag on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:47AM (#34298648)
punched in the face or being perceived...

"or"

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by crabkin on Monday January 09, 2023 @12:29PM (#34312979)
don't understand your comment. maybe I should have put and/or. downvoted because I go against the grain here, clearly though, everyone must concede you don't live in a vacuum and social/biological dynamics do not bow down to your personal cultural ones. if you've never been punched in the face before I encourage you try your very best to and only then can I take what you say on these sorts of matters seriously.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by ssth on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:47AM (#34298646)
I don't think this attitude suitable in the diverse community where there are different ethnics or religons. People should care what the other find things unconfortable and should be aware that what you think acceptable is may not so for the others.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by Sakos on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:18AM (#34298875)
I have zero tolerance for people who push their religious views on others and also use their religion to justify violence. This goes for Islam just as much for Christianity. I don't hear much about Christians beheading people over insulting Jesus in Europe though.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by ssth on Sunday January 08, 2023 @09:16AM (#34299257)
> I have zero tolerance for people who push their religious views on others and also use their religion to justify violence.

Those who push their religious views on others and also use their religion to justify violence are extremely minority, majority of muslims do not do those things. And "bad muslims" always in those media or news because who would read articles about "nice muslim". So you should know what I mean.

And insulting *any* religions is not acceptable and deserve to be punished. As for beheading punishment though, I do not have enough knowledge to comment about it.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by qsort on Sunday January 08, 2023 @10:04AM (#34299657)
> And insulting any religions is not acceptable and deserve to be punished.

Why?

I believe all religions are a bunch of bullshit. Almost all of them regard this belief as a mortal insult. Should I get punished for that?

The only tenable way to treat religions in a liberal democracy is like any other belief. You get full freedom to practice any one you want, or none of them, or even more than one at the same time for all I care, but you don't get any special status or moral authority.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by ssth on Sunday January 08, 2023 @11:30AM (#34300454)
≥ I believe all religions are a bunch of bullshit. Almost all of them regard this belief as a mortal insult.

You may believe in no religion, but I don't think you should say that in public. Especially in front of any religius person you say "your religion is bullshit!".

> Should I get punished for that?

Maybe if that as insult to others.

> The only tenable way to treat religions in a liberal democracy is like any other belief. You get full freedom to practice any one you want, or none of them, or even more than one at the same time for all I care, but you don't get any special status or moral authority.

I agree to this point. But you do not automatically have right to insult other's believe.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by Sakos on Sunday January 08, 2023 @10:25AM (#34299823)
This is insanity. This is like saying insulting Republicans or Democrats should be punishable. There's nothing particularly special about religion that should give it protection from criticism or "disrespect" or being insulted (also, who decides what is an insult? the religious fruitcakes? naw dawg, fucking no). Anything else is such authoritarian insanity that it feels like you're arguing in bad faith, and it just gives religious extremists the protection they need to force their ass-backwards views on everybody else while literally murdering people who they perceive as having "insulted" them or their religion.

If you want to protect "good Muslims", you need to accept liberal values that include being able to "insult" a religion without fear of violent attack.

> As for beheading punishment though, I do not have enough knowledge to comment about it.

What the fuck does this even mean? You think there's some conceivable situation where it's justified to react to "being insulted" with a beheading? You can fuck right off with the rest of the extremists.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by ssth on Sunday January 08, 2023 @11:10AM (#34300244)
> There's nothing particularly special about religion that should give it protection from criticism or "disrespect" or being insulted (also, who decides what is an insult? the religious fruitcakes? naw dawg, fucking no)

Sure enough we do not need law about this. But should we actively offending others because we do not agree to them when we can go by beeing nice each other. Even if we do not share what is critism what is insult, I apologize if you feel offended.

> If you want to protect "good Muslims", you need to accept liberal values that include being able to "insult" a religion without fear of violent attack

Even if there is no violence, anyone should not insult others. And anyone who do violence or murder should be punished by law.

≥ You think there's some conceivable situation where it's justified to react to "being insulted" with a beheading?

No, I think there's no conceivable situation where it's justified to react to "being insulted" with a beheading.

> You can fuck right off with the rest of the extremists.

When I ask anyone to be nice to each other is extremist, well sorry.

Of course violence and terrorist is not right regardless of any reason.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by ssth on Sunday January 08, 2023 @11:40AM (#34300556)
Here I don't mean to say that any country have to create law about this.

As for punishment, I don't mean death punishment. At max should be jail or fine.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by posterboy on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:06AM (#34298784)
I'm pretty sure everyone is aware that getting stabbed to death is "uncomfortable". I'd certainly not not "give a fuck" if it happened to me because I literally looked at somebody the wrong way.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by ssth on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:22AM (#34298895)
I certainly do abhor any violence when thinks could be avoided when we respect each other's view and values. Especially if anyone resort to stab others because the feel offended.

What I mean, you shoud consider to stop yourself before you do things that controversial. Or do you keep silence if other people do things that you find offensive? Some other my not keep silence may resort violence, and it is not limited to islam. Once again, I do not like violence or oppression when we can avoid those by respecting each others.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by natosaichek on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:57AM (#34299120)
We can avoid violence by _not responding violently_ to feeling offended. Being offended is not the same as being physically harmed. Those people who respond with violence to the non-violent acts of others should be censured. Their ideologies deserve ridicule and suppression to the extent that they condone such violence.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by NicoJuicy on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:33AM (#34298564)
We have separation of religion for a lot of things.

Schools should be too ( only partial now)

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by morby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:36AM (#34298586)
This isn’t about separating religion from school. It’s about having sensitivities for peoples way of life. There are a lot of things you wouldn’t be able to get away with outside of depicting Muhammad in art. And none of them related to Muslims.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by mruniverse on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:48AM (#34298659)
How sensitive are Muslims to other peoples way of life?
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by DoctorOW on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:50AM (#34298668)
It depends from person to person. Anyone I've met who is Muslim seem incredibly tolerant to me.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by mruniverse on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:57AM (#34298725)
Tolerant enough to support an art history professor who showed an image depicting Muhammad?
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by morby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:10AM (#34298816)
The ones I know would be, yes. They’d also think it’s odd some people feel the existential need to do it.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by mruniverse on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:12AM (#34298833)
As long as it's only thinking people odd.

Not sure if the professor felt existential about it but she said:

“I am showing you this image for a reason. And that is that there is this common thinking that Islam completely forbids, outright, any figurative depictions or any depictions of holy personages. While many Islamic cultures do strongly frown on this practice, I would like to remind you there is no one, monothetic Islamic culture,”

https://hamlineoracle.com/10750/news/who-belongs/

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by NicoJuicy on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:30AM (#34298955)
But this case is exactly by people who are not tolerant.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by DoctorOW on Monday January 09, 2023 @07:40AM (#34309668)
*person. One student complained and that's the reason the original comment advocated deportation. Let's say that we were able to find one person of Christian faith who is intolerant, what country should Christians return to? Does this include a lack of religious beliefs? Where do we send anyone who fails to believe in God, much in the same way as one other person on the planet?
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by NicoJuicy on Friday January 13, 2023 @05:32AM (#34366025)
I can show you some places :)
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by DoctorOW on Friday January 13, 2023 @07:52AM (#34367028)
Go for it. Where do you feel we should deport people for the crime of being atheist?
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by NicoJuicy on Saturday January 14, 2023 @01:51PM (#34382826)
There no crime for being an atheist or Muslim.

Some cultures are just more violent ( eg. Look at fifa world cup and marocco people through Europe).

Are you denying that they are more violent?

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by posterboy on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:02AM (#34298759)
It's not even an ideology if you look at it that way but it is a state religion by design, that has various implementations depending on who's to benefit. It prescribes universal obligations which they have in common. Some other dogmas are subject to interpretation.

So the question needs to be cast in another light, sure. It's a hard problem that isn't solved by calling on an ideology.

Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by morby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @08:09AM (#34298807)
This comment makes little sense, does not negate the fact Islam is an ideology, and does nothing to contribute to this discussion.
Re:A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She... by posterboy on Sunday January 08, 2023 @11:03AM (#34300179)
Something that everyone can practice has to have a few simple rules that everyone can follow. That doesn't make it an ideology. It is a complex set of intervowen systems that are carried in no small part at the state level, communicated by language which is in fact a very complex system. That's an ideology insofar as the word may be related to idioma, as it were.