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Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by version_five on Friday January 06, 2023 @08:38PM (#34284081)
Aren't they pretty much always political? I think the only way to recover is to get away from the person that wants you gone.
Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by bitsavers on Friday January 06, 2023 @08:45PM (#34284135)
You can't. PIPs are designed as a CYA to get you to leave by putting you in a situation you can't recover from. You also can't get a transfer if you've been put on one.
Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by 082349872349872 on Friday January 06, 2023 @08:50PM (#34284160)
I was put on a PIP very shortly before landing a (mandatory, due to my country's laws) nice fat severance package. I suspect* the hope was that I would have been offended by the PIP and found new employment, saving them the severance.

* there were also noises being made about upcoming mandatory night/weekend support rotas; in hindsight it seems awfully like those of us who were expensive were being oh-so-subtly encouraged to move along under our own steam.

Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by sys_64738 on Friday January 06, 2023 @09:02PM (#34284242)
They’re a method to get rid of you at the next RIF. People are always stack ranked come what may.
Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by PortleyFool on Friday January 06, 2023 @10:23PM (#34284808)
When a manager is unhappy with an employee they reach out to HR, or HR may reach out to the manager if they have given the employee consecutive sub standard performance ratings. HR won’t let the manager just fire the employee without all the right documentation in place. It’s not that easy at companies that care about not losing wrongful termination lawsuits. Before an employee is fired the HR department wants to have documentation showing clear cause. In instances where the employee broke a policy, they will investigate, document, meet with the employee to discuss the findings and then fire them immediately after. In cases where the manager is claiming poor performance, the burden is on the manager to create compelling evidence. HR will review the PIP and check in. An employee wishing to stay employed or at least walk away with a severance should start their own documentation exercise. Raising complaints and issues directly with HR and working hard to meet the criteria in the PIP. Also contacting an employment lawyer will help. If the company thinks there is any chance you will sue, they will likely opt to offer a severance. In cases of severance the manager may get a range they have to approve. HR will offer the severance starting at the bottom of the range. Consider not accepting the first offer if it comes to that. $5 to $10k counters are usually safe but not guaranteed. Note that none of this applies in cases where the cause is layoffs.
Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by mgsouth on Saturday January 07, 2023 @12:03AM (#34285389)
Here's ancedata, from a manager's viewpoint. tldr: Over my career I've put two or three people on PIPs, at a couple of different orginizations, and it never worked out.

In all cases it was driven by me, based on my assessment of suitability and the effect on the team. I don't recall them being driven by HR, stack-ranking, pending RIFs, or any other larger organizational concerns. It was always the last-ditch effort after one-on-ones, reviews, coaching, looking for other more-suitable positions in the company, and other less-formal efforts had failed. In each of the cases I didn't have high hopes.

From my standpoint, a PIP was primarily a procedure where I documented requirements as concretely, clearly, and objectively as possible. They were tangible goals for the employee, rather than a vague "you need to do better". I thought of them as if (when) it didn't work out, then the person would know it wasn't something personal, or reflected their worth as a person, but just that they didn't fit the requirements for that job. Was that actually any consolation, or was it just rubbing the person's face in "you failed, you can't do the job"? Sigh... I don't know.

I also don't know if, years later, I'd make the same decisions in all cases. With experience I've come to appreciate more factors other than raw technical competence.

edit: Regarding time frame--once they were put on a PIP it was a several month process, but shorter than six months.

Re:Ask HN: What are the odds of recovering from a Performanc... by nullfield on Saturday January 07, 2023 @05:30AM (#34286879)
As lawyers like to say, “it depends”. Months, like, “a few”.

For someone in the situation-SWIM-my suggestions would be something like:

Document. Get criteria for “improvement”, down to nauseating detail. Meet it, and if they still fire you, well, then a lawyer will be more interesting.

This all presumes you weren’t asking for it, and it’s political opinion some way.

If you were asking for it, improving for real might be enough.