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Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by echelon on Thursday January 05, 2023 @06:35PM (#34268585)
Shortbets 24 months.

Looking at LLMs is also not seeing the forest of Tacotron, neural vocoders, acoustic models, Stable Diffusion, NeRFs...

This is snowballing so fast.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by Xelynega on Thursday January 05, 2023 @07:22PM (#34269081)
All of those examples have the exact same limitation, they can't replace processes that create novel ideas since they're statistical recombinations of existing ones.
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by dwaltrip on Thursday January 05, 2023 @08:08PM (#34269583)
That's not a fleshed out argument. Why do you believe that "statistical combinations" can't create novel ideas?
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by MagicMoonlight on Thursday January 05, 2023 @08:32PM (#34269771)
Because it has no mechanism for creating novel ideas...

It's like saying a calculator could spontaneously derive its own proof. No it can't, because it has no ability to do that. It physically does not have a way to create new ideas. It cannot reshape its own circuitry like a brain and it does not have spontaneous thoughts.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by mashygpig on Thursday January 05, 2023 @08:42PM (#34269845)
How do humans come up with novel ideas?
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by sanroot98 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:22PM (#34270148)
First we need to define ,what creativity and intelligence means ,so we can compare that with human results
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by dwaltrip on Thursday January 05, 2023 @08:44PM (#34269867)
I hear what you are saying, but I'm not convinced. Can you dig a bit deeper?

What makes an idea "novel"? What types of physical processes can create new ideas or have spontaneous thoughts, and which can't? What is "special" about brains, in your view?

I'm looking for some meat on the bone here.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by Sparyjerry on Friday January 06, 2023 @01:28AM (#34271643)
ChatGPT is not like other chat bots which operate like a calculator and that is exactly why it is popular. You can put random inputs like "write a short story with 900 words with a bear and wolf about driving to the casino where they win big but can't spend the money" and it will output something total unique based on those inputs.
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by nwienert on Thursday January 05, 2023 @07:27PM (#34269138)
I’ve been around this stuff for 7 years now, former co-founder was super into AI hype and actually ended up leaving to go work for OpenAI. Nothing is snowballing fast now… it’s been the exact same since at least 7 years ago.

At the time I have to admit I was equally bullishly myopic, the new models seemed insanely cool and the process seemed super-exponential. I predicted AI may replace programming, art and many things within 5 years.

Then I checked in 5 years later - not much really had changed and I revised my predictions way down. Since then I’ve revised them down again actually, as I see them running into scaling issues again, amongst many other issues.

The attitude you take is infectious, I saw it firsthand. But if I look at what concrete is changing, it’s not much.

Humans love watching Chess. It’s exploded in popularity in the last 4 years. No one watches AI chess, though the top players certainly gain in their practice from it. But where’s the revolution?

I know it’s different but I predict the same happens across the “new” areas - image and text generation. They seem amazing, likely beating humans in many ways. But in the end we don’t care much about computers, we care about novelty.

Novelty and humanity drive fashion, music, film, literature… basically all art. It needs to innovate, needs to be extremely personal. It’s not going to disrupt any of them, not even close. But it will be used in the loop.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by Sparyjerry on Thursday January 05, 2023 @10:38PM (#34270670)
What is revolutionary is that ChatGPT is indistinguishable from a real person's writing and intelligence on a subject - and not just in text, but in coding. Before ChatGPT any similar program's responses were so obvious bots that you would look at and say "oh that's cool" but it was still garbage you would never use. Now, I've heard people using ChatGPT for self (ai) therapy, asking it what to do, and how to do something. It's a planner, a worker, a designer, an idea machine. It's like Google but actually gets you to the answers you want without the incredible about of garbage that came when SEO websites took over Google. Then you've got the symbiosis with humans, it's not "look at this AI art." It's artists using AI tools to 'produce' 1000 versions of art a day and pick the best one they find most personal. AI art was already entered into a human contest by someone cheating in which it won. Before iPhone there was plenty of similar products but none that put all the pieces together the way an iPhone did. There is a tipping point to AI and ChatGPT is the iPhone of AI.
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by nwienert on Friday January 06, 2023 @12:10AM (#34271222)
I don’t see ChatGPT as any different from gpt3 really, it still makes all the same category of mistakes.

It’s very distinguishable from a human in that you can trivially make it contradict, say nonsense, and it still makes all sorts of errors especially past a few paragraphs.

Very few people are using it. AI therapy is really a great counterexample - it’s not just not up to the task, also highly dangerous. Last thing anyone needs in therapy is to talk to a computer that has no long term memory and will say whatever you want it to - pure demoralization.

As far as code - also not really compelling. I’ve tried it and don’t use it, because:

1. It’s worse than Google. Google + stack overflow finds 100% of the same answers, but also gives me many alternatives, verifies they are correct, and adds lots of context.

2. It’s incorrect in subtle ways, often.

3. It’s actually actively bad at programming beyond the simplest smallest isolated problems, which are about 1% of the daily tasks of a software dev.

I did say in the loop it has some value, but it’s truly far from an iPhone in terms of value. About 0% rounded of the population is even aware of it, let alone getting value from it. I have no idea what I’d use it for, its proneness to blunders and bullshit is a real dealbreaker for every application besides illustrations and maybe summarization - and the latters been solved forever, and is a marginal industry.

Again there’s a weird need to hype it up it seems, we’re at some peak of the hype curve and people are buying it. I think one reason that happens is because it’s mediocre at a lot of things, so people think it’ll do everything. But it’s got major reasons why it’s mediocre that haven’t changed from gpt3 or earlier.

It’s a cool thing certainly, but Google is like 1000x more valuable and idk if even Google was a revolution or just a somewhat big improvement.

Four fundamental limiting factors: it’s imprecise (can’t rely on it for unsupervised or technical things), it’s average (not very valuable to art or creative innovation), it’s a liar (not great for many things), and it’s a panderer (therapy, etc).

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by Sparyjerry on Friday January 06, 2023 @01:22AM (#34271618)
1. You could literally just input stack overflows data and it would be able to answer the same questions. ChatGPT is running on years old data and isn't even connected to the internet right now, the future will be way better. 2. Again Google is also wrong in subtle and even not so subtle ways. I've seen highlighted answers that are just dead wrong thanks to the SEO takeover. In Google clicks = right answer very often. It's essentially a popularity contest and try finding anything obscure on Google. 3. It's not going to write entire programs but it's amazing for simple one module tasks, but sometimes that is all you need to build into something bigger. You can even ask it tell you how to program and continually ask 'and how do I do that' and find the answer (similar to google which you'll be also be lucky to find anything useful on your first search or first link). It's more like an instructor than Google because with Google you don't know what you don't know. Most programmers are actually just good at searching for answers and this is a short cut. You can get 10 ways to program the same thing if you ask the question slightly differently. Just like I was talking about art, you get 100 solutions if you want and just choose the best. It's not replacing programmers but it sure as hell makes the job easier.
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by nwienert on Friday January 06, 2023 @03:30AM (#34272365)
I do get that, but to me it all sums up to “much worse than Google in the best case”.

StackOverflow is almost never wrong at the top answer and again has many coherent responses for many use cases with contextual help, where GPT is often subtly incorrect with no real context (precision struggles). The whole iterative thing is maybe good for learning tools. Just not seeing a revolution, yet.

The struggles for SEO are less than those for GPT, both have to deal with spam and weird data, but GPT you’re also out of date, don’t have much explainability, and basically trust one giant black box of bias that requires higher input-foo whereas Google is also a giant black box of bias but at least you land at SO or Reddit or something where things are concrete and easy to understand.

Again, if this was some iPhone level revolution I’d have no comparable. It’d be way better at something clearly. But it’s not even clearly equal to any of the examples, and imo worse than basically all except “draw me a dragon in a tutu”, caricature artists should be worried!

On second thought, caricature artists are pretty safe since much of that experience is the whole human drawing you thing and also the generative models don’t really do caricature well as of now.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by MagicMoonlight on Thursday January 05, 2023 @08:31PM (#34269755)
But none of those products solve the problem of the "AI" being stupid as fuck. Because it's not AI, it's just brute forcing.

The current solution of 500b parameters or whatever is literally just a lookup table of existing data. They could replace it with an SQLite database with the same amount of data and get the same solution.

There is no thought, there is no reasoning. It can't come up with new ways of doing anything, it just regurgitates based on its pre-programmed ruleset. That's why self driving doesn't work - it doesn't know what a fucking car is. Ask it what a road is or a car and it has no idea, it just has a million miles of road in its database. Ask it how to drive on a country lane and it crashes because that's not in the database. There's nothing there.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by dwaltrip on Thursday January 05, 2023 @08:49PM (#34269904)
> The current solution of 500b parameters or whatever is literally just a lookup table of existing data. They could replace it with an SQLite database with the same amount of data and get the same solution.

I'm pretty sure this is completely false?

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by pifm_guy on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:17PM (#34270109)
Correct.

ML papers always try to find the most similar examples in the training set, and rarely find a close match.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by ClueslessTech99 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:52PM (#34270362)
How so? What would be the difference? Other than being unviable.
Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by dwaltrip on Saturday January 07, 2023 @03:07PM (#34292108)
I don’t have a deep understanding of how these language models work, but what do I know makes think that saying “It is basically a lookup table” is sort of like saying “A car is basically a bike”.

Sure, there are some very vague similarities, but they are also incredibly different.

A bike and a car both take you places. But the kinds of places they can take you and how effectively they do so differs vastly.

Likewise, both lookup tables and LLMs take an input and then spit something out. But the similarities basically stop there.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by ghshephard on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:00PM (#34270798)
I don't know about that - I've spend 100+ hours asking it to write Plays, TV Scripts, Poems, and lots of code (with Unit tests) - and it's pretty remarkable. Makes far fewer errors in simple stuff than I would - and way faster - I just need to proof it and copy-paste a lot of the time.

What I find amazing is when I ask it to do something like "Write a TV Script about Malcom Saving Kaylee from Aliens" - and then it fills in all the details of the Serenity, places Kaylee in the engine bay , has Mal firing off his pistols, and then retreating back to the Bridge".

Then, I simply type, "Add Elves" - and it rewrites the scenario, with the Elves properly using bows to fight off the aliens, and (this blows my mind), when they retreat to the bridge and Kaylee is worried about the engine, the Elves coherently say that it's okay, that they will use Magic to fix the engine and make it faster - And everything is written far more coherently than I ever would and makes absolute sense.

I get that it's a LLM - but damn, it's been blowing my mind for over a month, and I'm still astonished by it every day. I'm starting to wonder if my own intellect is anything more than an LLM connected to emotions/sense-organs.

Re:ChatGPT Creator Is in Talks for Tender Offer That Would V... by djmips on Friday January 06, 2023 @01:53AM (#34271760)
That does not mean it's not terribly useful. The computer that helped man land on the moon couldn't reason either but it had a good enough model of the physics and a brand new way to fuse a bunch of sensors into a model of where the craft was. I think of these products as being tools guided by the smart human.