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Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by Alex3917 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:04AM (#34261757)
> The fact that they are essentially illegal in California, and California's economy works shows that they are unnecessary and also don't hinder technological development.

The general rules that most states use for deciding when non-competes are enforceable aren't that bad. E.g. if you work at a bakery, you're not going to be allowed to open your own bakery two blocks away within a year, but it's fine if you do it a couple towns over. That doesn't seem especially crazy to me.

Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by AlexandrB on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:41AM (#34262472)
This example seems extra crazy. The only entities it protects are large companies. The biggest threat to a local bakery is not their employee leaving and starting their own bakery, but a large bakery chain coming in and undercutting their prices. No non-compete will help with that. Meanwhile, the large bakery chain does benefit from being able to stop you from baking for someone else if you leave their employ. At a minimum it helps them suppress wages.
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by ipaddr on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:32PM (#34263345)
It could increase wages as labor/labour would have one less worker in the pool increasing the demand and wages.
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by snarf21 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:31AM (#34262287)
That seems crazy to me. Why should I have to move to start a business? If I can start a new bakery with no following and run the old out of business, then it seems like the industry was ripe for competition anyway.

I do think it is reasonable for the competes to include not stealing recipes or IP or other capital from the business. Contacts are harder to legislate but there is a difference between remembering your best contacts and contacting them via LinkedIn vs exporting a contact list from your company's Salesforce and using that.

Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by dagw on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:29AM (#34262244)
if you work at a bakery, you're not going to be allowed to open your own bakery two blocks away within a year

What if you work at Starbucks and want to open your own coffee shop. Is it reasonable that you should not be able to open a coffee shop within two blocks of any existing Starbucks?

Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by mcv on Thursday January 05, 2023 @03:46PM (#34266304)
And if Starbucks closes a shop because of unionisation, can the employees reopen it as a co-op? I certainly think that should be possible, and encouraged.
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by dkjaudyeqooe on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:29AM (#34262256)
Why should employers have any control over your life whatsoever after they're not paying you?
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by Terretta on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:14PM (#34263026)
their investment in teaching you their IP -- that's the theory

you trade getting to learn for agreeing not to use it against them for a while -- is the theory

at line worker level i'd argue this is nonsense, at 'how to mill iPhones from a single block of metal' or 'self driving car brain' maybe its real, but there are ndas and patents for that

Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by scottLobster on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:24PM (#34263206)
Yeah, that theory's a load. If the fear is formal IP theft then as you point out there are harder protections for that. If the fear is they'll learn your business practices and use them to compete with you, then you suck and they deserve to win. Because you're the established business with all the advantages and existing customers, even if they have the capital lying around to start a copy-cat business tomorrow you should be able to wipe the floor with them and make sure they never get off the ground.
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by monksy on Thursday January 05, 2023 @01:23PM (#34264143)
> their investment in teaching you their IP -- that's the theory

In your example, they cannot claim the skills and basic education that gets you up to the point of "how they mill iphones within a context" (i.e. the milling, operating the machinery, physical properties of the metal, etc)

They are not legally able to include a huge educational backbone of knowledge (that they may have taught you) as their prioptary IP. Again, NCs don't prevent that disemination. That disemination can happen without employment.

Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by Terretta on Friday January 06, 2023 @10:04AM (#34275379)
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by gameman144 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @02:58PM (#34265627)
I really get a kick out of this thinking, because there's literally no alternative from the employer's point of view. If you want to hire someone to do a job, you have to teach them how to do the job.

To impose punitive measures after-the-fact because someone taught you how to do a job that they needed you to do seems hilarious even on the face of it.

To be clear, saying "You're not allowed to use our IP or our machinery or our supplies" is totally reasonable; if I quit Starbucks, then of course I won't have Starbucks machines or merch. To say that you're not allowed to do something because they happened to be the ones to train you seems just silly.

I get very strong middle-school vibes, where you introduce your friend-from-another-school to your group, then get mad when they become better friends with someone else than they are with you.

Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by gameman144 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:25AM (#34262179)
I'm curious, why does that seem less crazy than the simpler case of being allowed to open a bakery two blocks away within a year?
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by Volundr on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:15AM (#34261977)
And if your employer is a national player? International?
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by kelnos on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:46AM (#34262567)
What? No, that bakery example is completely crazy.
Re:U.S. Moves to Bar Noncompete Agreements in Labor Contracts by scottLobster on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:18PM (#34263088)
Uh, how does that make any sense? What if the local bakery sucks? Why is the bakery you work at immune to competition but the bakery a couple of towns over isn't?

How are you examining these rules that it "doesn't seem especially crazy?", what's the rationale?

Capitalism requires competition to produce positive outcomes, the only reason to limit or ban competition is in the edge cases where the model doesn't work (patents, utilities, etc). Frankly we have too many regulatory moats as it is IMO.