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Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by malfist on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:58AM (#34260455)
It's not, GP is wrong and making a deceptive argument.

The energy grid is already lower carbon than gasoline powered ICE vehicles, especially with natural gas taking over a lot of the energy production. But it's only going to get even better as more and more renewables come online.

It's easier for your giant utility company to have the capital to build out a solar farm to power your car/house/etc than it is for you and I to have the capital to build personal solar production to do the same thing. Even more so, some things only make sense at scale, like large scale wind energy. Placing a giant turbine in my backyard, even if the HOA and city allowed it, would work for me, but not my neighbor, and if they built one too we'd be competing with each other. Better to do it on farms leased or ran by utilities.

Besides, how is the renter going to de carbonize their electric car unless the grid does it?

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by dwheeler on Thursday January 05, 2023 @02:55PM (#34265581)
I'm not trying to make a deceptive argument. I may be wrong, but I stated what I thought was an important point: you need generators to decarbonize, not merely a switch to electric cars. Electric cars are an enabler for decarbonization, agreed, but focusing only enabling technology is not enough. It must be coupled with changes in energy generation to achieve a significant reduction in carbon dioxide emissions. I fear the emphasis on half the problem will leave the problem unsolved.

The article "Factcheck: How electric vehicles help to tackle climate change" <https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-...> seems to make the same point (if that's a bad source let me know):

* "EVs are responsible for considerably lower emissions over their lifetime than conventional (internal combustion engine) vehicles across Europe as a whole.

* In countries with coal-intensive electricity generation, the benefits of EVs are smaller and they can have similar lifetime emissions to the most efficient conventional vehicles – such as hybrid-electric models."

Which is my point: we need to decarbonize the generators. The article even goes on to state this: "However, as countries decarbonise electricity generation to meet their climate targets, driving emissions will fall for existing EVs and manufacturing emissions will fall for new EVs." Note the requirement to decarbonize the generators. This is a real issue, for example, in 2021, coal-fired electric power plants accounted for 91% of West Virginia's total electricity net generation <https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WV>. There's an assumption by many that utilities' electricity generators will over time produce less carbon dioxide, but I'm not convinced that it will "just happen". Such a change will require continued emphasis over time.

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by Koemul on Friday January 06, 2023 @04:31AM (#34272746)
Why do you focus on a state that has one of the dirtiest electricity production and one of the lowest rates of EV sales in the US?

If we focus instead on electricity production by source in the USA between 2011 and 2021: Electricity produced...

with oil: 42TWh => 35TW (-16%)

with coal: 1730TWh => 900TWh (-48%)

with gas: 1010TWh => 1580TWh (+55%)

with solar: 2TWh => 164TWh (+8900%)

with wind: 120TWh => 378TWh (+215%)

with nuclear: 790TWh => 780TWh (-2%)

with hydro: 310TWh => 250TWh (-20%)

So not only was 600TWh of dirty coal replaced by cleaner gas, the amount of electricity produced with fossil fuels dropped by more than 200TWh. Meanwhile, electricity production by renewables significantly increased.

Or in other words, if you had bought an EV in 2011 and driven it until now, it would have gotten cleaner every year, which is not going to happen with an ICE.

Source: our world in data, numbers slightly adjusted for readability.