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Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by vhold on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:04AM (#34184635)
This article from 1993 has the most important detail missing from the Register article:

https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1993...

> The NetWare operating system installed on the server computer acts as a traffic cop, masterminding the flow of information over a network. (The latest version costs $4,695 for 25 users, $47,995 for 1,000.)

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by jon-wood on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:21AM (#34184744)
I’m not convinced that was much of a reason. Windows NT 4 Server pricing was similar, with licenses needed for each client connecting, plus additional licensing for the OS running on those clients.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by EvanAnderson on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:44AM (#34184910)
I was deploying a lot of small office networks in the late 90s. I found NT 3.51 and 4.0 a ton easier to purchase for Customers (i.e. the company I worked for needed a much looser “partnership” arrangement with Microsoft vs. Novell).

NT was definitely cheaper, too. That made a difference in small deployments where I was often getting nickel-and-dimed.

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by merlyn on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:46AM (#34184933)
I think licensing was a huge factor in Microsoft winning.

Microsoft's license was soft, and depending on the customer buying enough paper to cover, if you could even find a reseller that could describe how to properly license Windows Server (exteremely doubtful).

OOTH, Novell's licensing was a hard limit. Once that # of workstations logged in, those without a license were hosed.

On all the jobs I did in those days, Novell networks at each customer site _never_ had enough licenses to cover every workstation. There was always somebody left out and they had to go bug people to see if they were done with the network so they could get in their tasks. Nobody ever seemed to overprovision their licenses to cover every single workstation (or even to have extra).

I never met a company using Microsoft server that properly had their CALs licensed, and they didn't want to hear it from me. Finding somebody to sell you the proper CALs was an interesting exercise.

Most other network server OSes at the time (the Unix vendors were trying hard in this space in those early days too) also had hard licenses. Which was part of why they didn't gain traction at all.

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by brk on Friday December 30, 2022 @09:31AM (#34185325)
This is roughly my recollection as well. Along with another comment above about lack of apps for Novell.

Every small business was going to be running Windows already, so an NT server was kind of a logical conclusion. Couple that with the fact that the NT server was likely cheaper to license (even if it was ultimately not properly licensed), and that the NT server at least offered the appearance of being more flexible and capable than a Novell server, and it made sense that NetWare died off.

As a reseller, I also seem to recall needing to have a bunch of techs certified on all the various Novell apps to get a good discount. I remember going for my Groupwise certification specifically so our company could get a better discount level from Novell to try and be more competitive. I think I only ever installed one GroupWise deployment.

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by EvanAnderson on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:52AM (#34184979)
MSFT licensing being “soft” with enforcement has always seemed like a major strategic advantage for them.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by TillE on Friday December 30, 2022 @09:51AM (#34185538)
They got serious about license activation in the Windows Vista - Windows 7 era, but now they're back to where anyone can install a Windows license of their choice with just a few commands, using a pirate KMS server.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by EvanAnderson on Friday December 30, 2022 @10:38AM (#34185979)
The server / client access license side, other than Remote Desktop / Terminal Services (which I assume is because of licensing with third-party developed code) has trended “softer” over the years.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by Karunamon on Friday December 30, 2022 @10:31AM (#34185885)
The cynical take on this is that Microsoft has pivoted hard into being a services and advertising company, so it is more important to them that you run Windows with all of its data gathering and advertising and cloud BS then it is that you paid for Windows at all.

They could easily break the fake KMS but choose not to. It speaks a lot to their priorities.

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by robotnikman on Friday December 30, 2022 @11:33AM (#34186592)
That's what I figured as well. To Microsoft right now, more devices running windows = more data gathered, regardless of whether the device was activated by a pirated KMS server or not.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by DaiPlusPlus on Friday December 30, 2022 @12:58PM (#34187687)
LTSB/LTSC doesn't have the anything like the levels of telemetry in the Home SKUs, but even so, as a (former) MSFT SE I can give you my personal assurances that the telemtry is about seeing how the product is used and not for marketing/money-making reasons (beyond, ostensibly, making the product better to entice people to pay for upgrades or subscription services).
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by robotnikman on Friday December 30, 2022 @02:40PM (#34189071)
Thanks for the info, that squashes that theory then. I guess its more of a case of just not being work it for Microsoft to go after the very small fraction of non-business users who pirate windows.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by bitwize on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:33PM (#34192418)
It's like that whole thing about putting heat sensors under everyone's desk "to optimize HVAC usage". That may be the stated and initial reason, but once the heat sensors are there you'd be a damn fool not to use them for absentee disciplinary purposes.

Microsoft can tell us all they want that the telemetry is just for product usage. When the first slow quarter comes around they're going to gaze longingly at that huge treasure trove of data they have and start asking themselves if selling it won't help them meet their quarterly projections.

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by Alupis on Friday December 30, 2022 @01:19PM (#34187984)
You can still use a Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 license to activate Windows 10.

I'm unsure if this still works with Windows 11, but judging by how the upgrade process works, I would guess so.

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by int_19h on Friday December 30, 2022 @08:40PM (#34192482)
“It’s easier for our software to compete with Linux when there’s piracy than when there’s not… You can get the real thing, and you get the same price.”

- Bill Gates

Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by tssva on Friday December 30, 2022 @09:31AM (#34185322)
The pricing quote is from 1993 when Windows NT 3.1 was released. A Windows NT 3.1 server license cost $1500 and didn't require client access licensing. Many of my clients jumped ship from Netware because of the huge price difference. Almost all of them were pissed when NT 3.5 was released and required client access licensing but having just finished migrating off Netware they weren't going to migrate back.
Re:How Novell Netware lost the battle against Windows NT (2013) by Genbox on Saturday December 31, 2022 @08:51AM (#34196395)
For everyone else wondering. Prices adjusted for inflation:

$4,695 in 1993 is worth $9,682 today.

$47,995 is worth $98,982 today