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Re:Letter regarding proposed free expression statement from MIT by Manuel_D on Monday December 26, 2022 @12:42PM (#34139841)
You continue to assume that anything other than identical outcomes is evidence of some sort of bias or discrimination. Men are more likely to be convicted of murder than women. Is this a bias that needs to be corrected? Or maybe men are more likely to commit murder?

At my previous workplace we instituted minimum representation quotas for underrepresented demographics (we used euphemism for them, of course, "equity standards" and "inclusion targets"). The hiring rates increased, but then so did attrition rates. Similar things happened, but in reverse, when California banned racial discrimination in state universities. Admission rates for underrepresented minorities went down, but then the graduation rates rose. Perhaps increase attrition isn't solved by pursuing identical outcomes, it's solved by instituting blind hiring akin to blind orchestra auditions.

Re:Letter regarding proposed free expression statement from MIT by dagmx on Monday December 26, 2022 @03:10PM (#34141305)
Sigh, I have never said equal outcome. I have gone out of my way to explicitly talk about consistent outcomes however , and where a discrepancy is found, to understand why.

That men are found more guilty of murder is irrelevant to this discussion . The only relevant discussion is whether men are more likely to be found guilty of murder for a similar crime. The former is not bias, the latter is. However the former may be caused by systemic biases that put men in more likely scenarios to commit violent crimes. This is all high level of nuances that need to be understood, versus just saying “this is the way because it’s the way”

You keep fixating on very broad strokes, especially gender. You keep also missing the point of the not just focusing on intake. I’ve spelled that out multiple times, but you keep returning to intake.

There isn’t a point to continuing this discussion because you aren’t willing to even address the actual point of the discussion.

Re:Letter regarding proposed free expression statement from MIT by Manuel_D on Monday December 26, 2022 @03:21PM (#34141421)
Gender is just one example of disparities that exist for non-biased reasons. You have indeed used unequal outcomes as evidence of disparities, in fact your repeat it in this very comment:

> I have gone out of my way to explicitly talk about consistent outcomes however, and where a discrepancy is found, to understand why.

My point is that the burden of proof is on the person alleging discrimination to prove that an inconsistent outcome stems from bias. You've concluded that this disparities means underrepresented groups are bing "pushed out" on account of this unequal outcome.

This is a big leap in logic, and instead of actually trying to substantiate your claims you're saying I'm not addressing your point. I fully acknowledge your point: some other discrimination outside the scope of the hiring process, or whatever else we're talking about, is having an effect. And my point is that you're merely postulating this as fact and doing nothing to substantiate this statement.

What am I missing? You say I'm missing your point, so please explain what I'm missing.