Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid

Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by 082349872349872 on Thursday December 22, 2022 @05:37AM (#34091974)

Mutual Aid Among Animals mentions the existence of Defectors. I would argue both that the existence of the internet in particular and civilisation in general is a sign that great numbers of people can cooperate effectively, and that the woeful Covid response is a sign that small numbers of people defecting can be ruinous.

The best laid plans of mice and men, therefore, would seem to be those that (a) allow Cooperators to combine with at least linear effect, and (b) are resistant to sizeable Defecting populations.

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by robertlagrant on Thursday December 22, 2022 @07:30AM (#34092656)

Defectors implies authoritarianism, and my way or the highway thinking. which have generally been the enemy of overall cooperation. Wikipedia and the internet work because they mostly aren't like that, and are at their worst when they are.

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by Gravityloss on Thursday December 22, 2022 @07:40AM (#34092718)

Hmm, if someone "defects" wikipedia and doesn't edit it, no big deal.

But there absolutely are edit wars and battles of authority and admin bans etc.

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by robertlagrant on Thursday December 22, 2022 @08:30AM (#34093001)

Indeed. Hence my final phrase :)

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by 082349872349872 on Thursday December 22, 2022 @09:08AM (#34093361)

OK, so what model of overall cooperation would avoid Wikipedia drama?

(having seen humanity's response to Covid, I'm not willing to admit "the spirit of full cooperation will bloom as defecting behaviour withers away" as axiomatic. But I am curious as to what you have in mind?)

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by robertlagrant on Thursday December 22, 2022 @09:46AM (#34093751)

I don't have an alternative for Wikipedia. I'm saying we shouldn't lean into any (always seductive) way of thinking that demonises people who disagrees with our one true way of doing things. People should be herded cats; neither wild cats nor herded sheep.

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by 082349872349872 on Thursday December 22, 2022 @09:53AM (#34093843)

Agreed. What terms might be better than the game-theoretic Cooperator and Defector, then?

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by 082349872349872 on Thursday December 22, 2022 @07:58AM (#34092804)

Defect and Cooperate are terms of art: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma#Generalized...

In a "one hand washes the other" model of cooperation, the right hand would be defecting if it was frequently washed by the left, while never (or infrequently) washing in return.

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Re:Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid by serverholic on Thursday December 22, 2022 @09:22AM (#34093510)

I think the woeful Covid response shows how powerful culture is in shaping human behavior.

This is simultaneously terrifying and a source of optimism.

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