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Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by zmgsabst on Monday December 19, 2022 @08:03AM (#34051550)
We can debate the importance, but it’s clear that they’ve made a qualitative leap in their technology the past few years — a “breakthrough”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility#/me...

Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by HPsquared on Monday December 19, 2022 @08:57AM (#34052045)
That's quite the leap, clearly some big progress when it's presented like that.
Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by rz2k on Monday December 19, 2022 @09:42AM (#34052554)
And that graph does not include the 2022 experiment with 3.15, which also happened to be the first one with net positive output.
Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by Robotbeat on Monday December 19, 2022 @10:09AM (#34052933)
Yup, here’s the one: https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.6.2.2022121...

Credit: Mark Herrmann/LLNL

From this article: https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.6.2.2022121...

Clear qualitative difference.

Additionally, this is laser energy, but the lasers aren’t used directly. They produce X-rays which are the ones that actually drive the ablative implosion of the fuel pellet. If you used X-rays directly, the gain value would be MUCH higher… I think by that measure, they would’ve achieved Q=1 back in 2013?

Note that hey COULD use the lasers directly to drive implosion but haven’t yet. The Hohlraum/X-ray/indirect method I think produces more consistent lighting on the target, and is more analogous to the operation of an H-bomb, which is partly what this entire process is intended to replicate. They may do future experiments to try direct drive, in preparation for actually using this as a power production method and improving the efficiency dramatically… in combination with far higher efficiency modern lasers, this could enable Q high enough for net electricity production.

Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by pfdietz on Monday December 19, 2022 @10:48AM (#34053429)
It should be noted that even if the lasers were 100% efficient, this result is not sufficient to achieve a practical fusion power plant. That target could produce maybe $0.02 worth of electrical energy. That's nowhere close to paying for the plant, even totally ignoring operating costs.

A real plant would need target yields 100 to 1000 times larger, with all the engineering issues that would entail.

Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by Robotbeat on Monday December 19, 2022 @11:11AM (#34053732)
Of course, because you learn to spark fire before you build a power plant. NIF is nothing like a power plant. It was designed for stockpile stewardship and for fusion ignition demonstration, and they intentionally cancelled efforts to solve the engineering challenges of making this into a power plant, because doing so was premature without the ignition breakthrough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Inertial_Fusion_Energy
Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by serioussecurity on Monday December 19, 2022 @10:53AM (#34053489)
Not to diminish the achievement, but not making that graph log scale was deeply dishonest.
Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by maria2 on Monday December 19, 2022 @11:36AM (#34054079)
How is it dishonest?
Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by monetus on Monday December 19, 2022 @12:49PM (#34055080)
A log curve, rather than linear, would make the bars in the center taller and not give the same appearance of a massive change in the measurement. Not for me to say, but I'm guessing that, as is, it doesn't represent the work put into the effort as well as possible.
Re:Nuclear physicist explains why fusion ignition is hailed ... by maria2 on Monday December 19, 2022 @01:01PM (#34055273)
Yes, that's what a log scale does to a graph. But why do you feel a log scale is appropriate in this situation? To me, a linear scale is a much better choice. The underlying data isn't necessarily exponential, so there isn't a compelling reason to use a log scale.