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Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by bmitc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @07:58PM (#34046726)
> What tech people like Paul Graham and others were hoping was for Elon to apply his scientific first principles type of thinking that he demonstrated previously at SpaceX+Tesla to Twitter.

I wish one could take a step back and just see how ridiculous of a statement this is. There is nothing about Musk’s history and management style that is even remotely close to what could be called “scientific first principles type of thinking”. Musk’s management style is a bull in a china closet, he manages via personal vendettas, and he follows the marketing and hype first, delivery second product development cycle. See full self-driving, Cybertruck, Tesla robot, Tesla tunnel, and whatever else he’s promised over the years but never delivered on.

Edit: striking out comment about the Cybertruck’s airflow until I can find the article I read to back it up.

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by wpietri on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:19PM (#34046939)
> There is nothing about Musk’s history and management style that is even remotely close to what could be called “scientific first principles type of thinking”.

Agreed. But the interesting question for me is: what are people seeing that they would mistake for that?

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by bmitc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:25PM (#34047003)
I have no idea other than cult of personality. People really seem to take people like Musk and Trump at face value, as if their comments, philosophies, beliefs, positions, etc. are thoughtful things they stand behind and something more than what they really are: mouthpieces to shape what they want at a particular moment or to just blatantly confuse people. It’s a tactic out of Russia’s political playbook. I highly recommend Adam Curtis’ Hypernormalization.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by themitigating on Sunday December 18, 2022 @09:01PM (#34047343)
Weak people seek someone to follow.

Trump, Musk, Thatcher. All they have to do is tell them what they want to hear and throngs of unwashed masses, filled with their insecurities and fear, will worship at their feet.

"All you have to do is support me and I'll make everything allright" - any of the above

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by seanhunter on Monday December 19, 2022 @04:03AM (#34050006)
I am often reminded of the brilliant line from “The second Coming” by WB Yeats.[1]

“The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity”

Normal people are often full of doubt, their comments are often guarded by caveats etc. Dictators, populists, narcissists, confidence tricksters speak in absolutes. Their messages are very appealing because they seem so clear and straightforward. They can seem brilliant because of this certainty and sometimes can achieve a lot because they aren’t held back by the kinds of reservations and scruples that most people suffer from.

[1] https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-comi...

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by pajko on Sunday December 18, 2022 @11:14PM (#34048405)
Money
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by atoav on Sunday December 18, 2022 @11:41PM (#34048567)
> what are people seeing that they would mistake for that?

Fascist dictators are often "the weak person's idea how a strong person would look like". That means they are not strong in the sense that they have discipline, can carry a lot for other people, can defend their values etc. They are strong because they act strong.

Similar to that Musk is the mediocre person's idea of what a really smart person would look like. He managed to convince quite some people — even very intelligent ones — that he is an actual genius.

They wanted it to be true, so they ignored all the red flags. Replacing a train in a tunnel with a tunnel full of Teslas? Surely might look like the future, unless you have just a slight understanding of engineering, physics and safety rules. A scientific first principle would quickly let you optimise this: a fixed route? Rails are more efficient than rubber wheels, so put the Teslas on rails. Moving the batteries around is inefficient and a fire hazard, so let's move them out of the cars and replace them with the elctrical grid. The cars are bad at taking many passengers, replace them by fewer, bigger cars.

If you apply the "scientific" method you would not end up with the stuff Elon does like.

You know what Elon Musk is? It is flying cars. Everybody who didn't think them through at least for a minute thinks they are the future. Why? Because they look like they are the future. I loved these illustrations as a kid and I bet Elon did too. The problem is just that they make no sense in the real world.

Elon Musk has an exceptional sensitivity in identifying products and solutionz that look like the future. He has a very bad sense of going for actual good, efficient, workable solutions that make sense. Of anything really good comes up, it almost always seems to be despite him, not because of him.

The touch screens in the Teslas are another example. Looks like the future, while being less usable than what we had in the 90s. All the good ("boring") EV stuff in Tesla comes from actual good engineers who, you guessed it, apply the scientific method.

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by wilg on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:10PM (#34046847)
> The Cybertruck is actually a great example of anti-scientific thinking. It is so horribly terrible about managing air flow because it’s just pushing a box through air.

Sorry, did you just pull this out of your ass?

https://insideevs.com/news/600765/tesla-cybertruck-aerodynam...

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by bmitc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:18PM (#34046936)
No, I did not. I read it recently when searching for turbulence, not even searching for the Cybertruck. I’ll try and find the article again. The article you posted doesn’t say anything though and refers to a Reddit post that isn’t even linked, that I could find.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by wilg on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:43PM (#34047162)
I appreciate that. I don't think looking at the truck is sufficient to conclude that it is an inefficient airflow design. Especially because many parts of the design appear to be there to improve airflow compared to a normal truck – like the tonneau cover. Also, all of Tesla's other cars have quite good coefficients of drag.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by AnimalMuppet on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:12PM (#34046870)
Disagree with the GP as much as you want. Don't say it like that, at least not here.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by trashtester on Monday December 19, 2022 @05:03AM (#34050378)
Trump did an interview recently where he openly admitted that the airodynamics of the Cybertruck was not very good, even if it's better than most trucks. (Trucks are generally not designed with aerodynamics as the highest priority.)

My understanding is that the design is a mix of aesthetics and to keep production costs down.

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by rvnx on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:07PM (#34046821)
You mean the Paul Graham that was banned today from Twitter for "violating Twitter rules" ? https://twitter.com/nearcyan/status/1604598879973883905
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by bmitc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:10PM (#34046850)
What does Paul Graham have to do with my comment?
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by rvnx on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:22PM (#34046965)
Seemed like you were comparing Elon Musk and Paul Graham's ways of thinking.

I was going in your direction by saying that Paul Graham and Elon Musk have very different personas; to the point that Graham got banned because he wasn't happy with Elon's choices.

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by bmitc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:29PM (#34047035)
No, I was commenting on Elon supposedly having a scientific principles first thinking. I guess people assume Paul Graham does, too? I haven’t seen that either, and have been underwhelmed with basically anything I see coming from the VC corners.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by rvnx on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:35PM (#34047087)
Oh, right. I understood something else. Need more sleep :)
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by c22 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:03PM (#34046774)
My pet theory is that the cybertuck is just an excuse to start prototyping a future martian ground transport, in which case atmospheric drag may be less of a concern.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by bmitc on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:09PM (#34046845)
That’s an incredibly generous take.

Why not just develop the thing instead of playing this “oh, we didn’t fail, we were just doing this other thing all along” game.

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by c22 on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:11PM (#34046865)
I thought hn was all about the generous take.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by LarryMullins on Sunday December 18, 2022 @10:13PM (#34047938)
My pet theory is that Elon Musk's talk about colonizing Mars is a recruiting ploy, allowing him to hire top tier rocket scientists relatively cheap because they believe in the mission.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by fshbbdssbbgdd on Monday December 19, 2022 @12:11AM (#34048742)
What do you figure is the real motivation for SpaceX if not Mars? I think it’s a much worse business than Tesla if you don’t care about the SpaceX mission. Seems to be barely viable financially, while Tesla has healthy margins. Musk has used his Tesla wealth to support SpaceX, which makes him seem more like a believer to me.
Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by tsimionescu on Monday December 19, 2022 @03:34AM (#34049826)
SpaceX probably has a more or less guaranteed future as part of the military-industrial complex, and I think it's very likely that's Musk's actual vision - inroads into becoming the next Lockheed-Martin.

Remember that one of the very first Tesla investors, Mike Griffin, since way before a rocket engine had even fired, later became Trump's Undersecretary of R&D, and had previously been a high-ranking scientist of the Star Wars satellite missile defense program (and head of NASA).

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by LarryMullins on Monday December 19, 2022 @12:20PM (#34054684)
Commercial launch provider. And particularly cornering the market for DoD launches, probably because he thinks that leverage will make him politically untouchable.

> Seems to be barely viable financially

They're betting big on reusable rockets, and so far it seems to be paying off. If they succeed in getting a fully reusable rocket flying several times a week, as they claim they can, the no other launch provider will be able to compete.

Re:Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by th... by sgjohnson on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @06:13PM (#34074184)
The hyperloop is the most egregious example imho