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Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Sunday December 18, 2022 @05:52PM (#34044940)
That's not what ban evasion means. Ban evasion is the attempt to circumvent an existing ban or suspension. Posting content that does not benefit Twitter, without violating Twitter's rules, is not ban evasion.

Here is Twitter's policy on ban evasion: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion

In case Twitter changes this policy, here's an archived copy of the current version (October 2020): https://web.archive.org/web/20221218225353/https://help.twit...

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Sunday December 18, 2022 @10:12PM (#34047933)
You're mistaken about the situation. PG did violate Twitter's rules. Specifically, its rules on the promotion of alternative social platforms policy. You can find these rules on Twitter's page on Rules and Policies[0].

This is not the usual use of the phrase "ban evasion", but it is a literally correct use of it.

[0]https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/social-platfo...

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Sunday December 18, 2022 @11:35PM (#34048536)
If I'm mistaken, then go ahead and quote the part of the policy that was supposedly violated.

The page you linked currently does not exist:

> Sorry, this page doesn't exist.

> Try using the search bar, or return to the Help Center.

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/social-platfo...

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Monday December 19, 2022 @04:03AM (#34050003)
Sure (please note that this is a quotation from the policy as it was when PG was suspended, and that the policy has since been changed):

> At both the Tweet level and the account level, we will remove any free promotion of prohibited 3rd-party social media platforms, such as linking out (i.e. using URLs) to any of the below platforms on Twitter, or providing your handle without a URL:

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Monday December 19, 2022 @06:54AM (#34051074)
That policy has been deleted in response to backlash, not just changed.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34050283

As you are aware, the formerly suspended account did not link out to Mastodon or directly name any Mastodon handle. The tweet that led to the suspension was also compliant with how the CEO claimed the policy should have been interpreted:

> Casually sharing occasional links is fine, but no more relentless advertising of competitors for free, which is absurd in the extreme.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604593057676300288

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Monday December 19, 2022 @07:07AM (#34051152)
Whether that rule has since been deleted is of course interesting, but it is not directly relevant to my point, which is that PG did violate Twitter's rules (but, to be clear, the rule was indeed deleted).

Yes, I am aware that PG did not provide a hyperlink. In fact, that's the core of my claim about PG attempting to violate Twitter's rules while evading a ban (the kind of action which Elon and I have referred to as 'ban evasion').

I believe you have misinterpreted Elon's Tweet. But I'm not interested in debating the interpretation of the poorly written Tweet. What is clear is that it was known that linking to Mastodon accounts was not allowed on Twitter, which is why PG, attempting to evade a ban, did not provide such a link.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Monday December 19, 2022 @07:22AM (#34051234)
> What is clear is that it was known that linking to Mastodon accounts was not allowed on Twitter, which is why PG, attempting to evade a ban, did not provide such a link.

The user avoided posting the link so that he would be compliant with the rules as the CEO interpreted them. Your expectation is for the user to avoid posting any content that runs against Twitter's financial interest, even if that content is compliant with the rules. That is not a reasonable expectation, and the unreasonableness of this expectation caused the backlash that led to the account being unsuspended.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Monday December 19, 2022 @07:33AM (#34051313)
The Tweet very clearly violated the rule.

> The user avoided posting the link so that he would be compliant with the rules as the CEO initially interpreted them

Where did Elon interpret the rule as being that users can advertise prohibited 3rd-party social media platforms as long as they don't provide a hyperlink?

> Your expectation is for the user to avoid posting any content that runs against Twitter's financial interest, even if that content is compliant with the rules.

Why are you talking about my expectations? What I am doing here is pointing out that PG clearly violated Twitter's rules. My claim is a descriptive claim, not a normative one.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Monday December 19, 2022 @08:19AM (#34051684)
The CEO's statement (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604593057676300288) interpreted the deleted policy to mean that occasionally sharing links to other social media platforms is "fine". The suspended account's tweet did not even include a link to Mastodon, it only mentioned that a Mastodon account exists without directly naming the handle. Because the tweet did even less than what the CEO claimed was "fine", the suspension was unjustified.

You are inventing a completely different definition of "ban evasion" that has not been used in any Twitter policy page to try to justify the suspension, even after the suspension has been reversed for its unreasonableness.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Monday December 19, 2022 @03:22PM (#34057143)
If you read carefully the thread you linked you will see that Elon affirmed the following statement:

> You just can’t create or turn (my emphasis) your account into a free advertising unit for one of the listed competing platforms.

This is what PG was doing (you can argue that he actually wasn't - but he was according to Elon's standards, which is the important sense). One Tweet buried deep in a thread that could possibly be misinterpreted to support your position is not convincing.

I am not "inventing a new definition of ban evasion". I am using simple English words in a straight-forward way.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:28AM (#34068157)
> I am not "inventing a new definition of ban evasion".

Yes, you are. You've already admitted that your novel definition of "ban evasion" is not the usual use of the phrase (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34047933) and that the phrase typically refers to something completely different (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34045113). Twitter's own definition of "ban evasion" differs from what you are claiming the phrase to mean (https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion).

> I am using simple English words in a straight-forward way.

No, you are taking a phrase that already has a defined meaning in the context of Twitter and making up a new definition for it to attempt to justify the suspension. "Ban evasion" is the circumvention of an existing ban or suspension. It is not something that can be done by an account that is not already suspended or banned.

I have no idea why you are continuing to defend this unjustifiable suspension even after Twitter has already reversed it.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @02:27PM (#34071095)
The situation is very simple:

1. PG broke Twitter's rules

2. Twitter suspended PG's account

3. Twitter changed its rules

4. Twitter reinstated PG's account

Whether you like my use of the words 'ban' and 'evasion' ultimately isn't super relevant to my point.

I'm not 'defending' Twitter's actions. I'm interpreting reality. I'm discussing a matter of fact. Did PG break Twitter's rules? Yes.

HN has an infinite track record of being very wrong. I take my comment being flagged as a much greater endorsement of it than had it been "upvoted".

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @03:37AM (#34078146)
The account did not break Twitter's rules.

- The tweet did not link to Mastodon.

- The tweet did not name a Mastodon handle.

- The tweet is not similar to any of the examples provided in the deleted policy (“follow me @username on Instagram”, “[email protected]”, “check out my profile on Facebook - facebook.com/username”).

- The tweet did not bypass restrictions on external links via means such as URL cloaking or plaintext obfuscation, with the example provided being “instagram dot com/username”.

- The CEO of Twitter stated that "casually sharing external links" to competing platforms is "fine" within the deleted policy: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604593057676300288

Even though the account did not break Twitter's rules, you believe that it should have broken Twitter's rules because it said something that doesn't contribute to Twitter's business prospects. This is what you are erroneously using the phrase "ban evasion" to describe, even though Twitter's policy on ban evasion (https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion) defines it as something done only by accounts that were previously banned or suspended.

HN does have it right this time. HN users are fully capable of seeing that the definition of "ban evasion" that you invented specifically for your argument does not match the definition used in https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Saturday December 24, 2022 @12:58AM (#34114415)
Using a hyperlink is not neccessary to break the rule. Naming a Mastodon account (or any account) is not neccesary to break the rule. Breaking the rule in the same way that it was broken in the examples given is not neccesary to break the rule. Elon stated in various places that attempts such as PG's to break the rule (which is about the promotion of prohibited social media) without getting banned would not be tolerated. In one instance he referred to such an attempt as 'ban evasion' (this was in a Twitter space, I'll find it when I'm back at my PC).

Elon's phrase "casual sharing" is not inclusive of PG apparently denouncing Twitter and promoting his Mastodon account in its place. PG's Tweet was anything but casual. If PG had linked to some post he found interesting that happened to be on Mastadon, that might qualify as casual.

I never claimed that my use of the phrase 'ban evasion' matched the use in the Twitter user agreement. HN and I are in agreement on that count (as I have stated elsewhere in this thread).

Frankly, you have bad reading comprehension, most likely due to motivated interpretation i.e. you tend to see what you want to be there rather than what is actually there.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by commoner on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:29AM (#34125185)
> Elon stated in various places that attempts such as PG's to break the rule (which is about the promotion of prohibited social media) without getting banned would not be tolerated.

This sentence represents the problem with your argument. What is an "attempt to break the rule without getting banned" supposed to mean? You either break the rule or you don't. And this account didn't.

You resorting to personal attacks shows that you have lost the argument. I am disengaging. Merry Christmas.

Re:Twitter Suspends PG's Account by garbagetime on Sunday December 25, 2022 @04:27AM (#34125640)
If a person can read he should be able to see that PG's Tweet broke the rule. There's nothing too complicated about it - the rule clearly stated that X was not allowed, and PG did X.

You seem like someone who can read, so the charatable interpretation is that there is some kind of mental block that's stopping you from seeing the clear truth.

If you want to stop talking, OK. Either way I hope you have a merry Christmas.