Re:ElonJet – Account Suspended
by brigandish on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @11:17AM
(#33985660)
Were you forced to invite them before their speech? No, your freedom of association is not affected by someone else's free speech. Burn those RSVPs all you like.
If you want to go down the everything has consequences route then there is no distinction between free speech and anything else in the universe so it's not really worth bothering with.
Re:ElonJet – Account Suspended
by yencabulator on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @08:45AM
(#33983357)
That's the "speech in return" part.
Then we need to discuss what definition of "consequences" you're using.
Re:ElonJet – Account Suspended
by brigandish on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @11:10AM
(#33985543)
I gave the definition but I'll write it slightly differently if it wasn't clear before. Speech is free when the consequences are:
- it is not listened to
- it is listened to
- there is speech in return to the speaker
If you consider boycotts and being shunned by your social circle "speech in return", I suppose we agree. I'd tend to consider those to be consequences of free speech, though.
Re:ElonJet – Account Suspended
by yencabulator on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @12:21PM
(#33986640)
You can use your free speech to tell others not to do business with X. When enough people are convinced by that, it's a boycott.
Re:ElonJet – Account Suspended
by brigandish on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:42PM
(#33993259)
The part of free speech that is always in question is the free part. Hence, consequences, in this context, are linked to what affects that freedom, otherwise they're just part of being in a reality where everything is caused and hence has consequences. Thus, calling my dog back and it runs to me is not a consequence of free speech in the way we're discussing it.
Boycotts are based on the freedom to buy what one wants, but when they are mandated then they're not. They can be used to try and stop someone speaking, then they're against free speech. If they're not used in that way then fine.
Being shunned is not being spoken to or listened to which is freedom of speech.
If you're a dick, I need the freedom to say so, to encourage a boycott of your restaurant, to not invite you to parties, to protest your public appearances. All of those are consequences and important freedoms.